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Virago 24/7
Virago 24/7 is a podcast for women who are done shrinking.
I’m your host, Lyanette Talley—mother, wife, truth-teller, and warrior in progress.
Here is where we unlearn silence, honor our roots, and reclaim our voices.
We talk real life—identity, marriage, motherhood, leadership, and healing—with boldness and truth.
If you’ve ever been told you’re too loud, too much, or too ambitious...
You’re exactly where you need to be.
This is everyday growth. Everyday healing. For everyday warriors.
We’re not shrinking. We’re taking up space.
Virago 24/7
Men Of Virago Return
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
The laughs hit first, but the truths land deeper. We brought the Men of Virago back to the table after a long gap to compare notes on love, loss, growth, and how to build a partnership that lasts. Justin shares career wins and the shock of discovering anxiety through therapy, Philip balances thriving work with the grief of losing loved ones, and Milky—now deep into dental school—opens up about finding love when he least expected it.
From there we dive into the framework that keeps relationships steady: a soulmate list to clarify non-negotiables, core values that outlast chemistry, and the messy reality of boundaries with opposite-sex friendships. Is exchanging numbers worth the risk to trust? How does omission become a slow leak in intimacy? We don’t preach; we dissect the gray areas and offer practical rules that actually help. Radical transparency beats secrecy. Perception matters because your partner’s reality matters. If it would look shady on camera, don’t do it.
We also rethink apologies and forgiveness. A quick “sorry” without changed behavior is just noise. Real repair looks like action, transparency, and the discipline not to weaponize old wounds. Emotional intelligence threads through it all—the ability to see your part in conflict, share hard truths with kindness, and choose growth over being right. We even tackle the question everyone ducks: how honest is too honest? The filter we use is simple and hard to argue with—speak the truth with love and be kind, or wait until you can.
We close with what we want most for 2026: time with the people who matter, renewed purpose at work, deeper faith, better habits, and relationships we’re proud to maintain. If you’re navigating commitment, setting boundaries, or trying to repair trust, this conversation offers a clear, human roadmap for doing it with heart.
If this hit home, follow the show, share it with someone you love, and leave a five-star review so more everyday warriors can find it.
Go to my website http://www.virago247.net for all things Virago 24/7
You can email me at virago247podcast@gmail.com
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Facebook: Virago 24/7
Thanks for listening and don't forget to share, share, share!
Everyday growth, everyday healing with everyday warriors!
Music by Deli Rowe: "Space to Move"
Logo by Kaylin Talley
Hi, I am your host, Leonette Talley, and you are listening to Virago24-7. Virago is Latin for female warrior, and 24-7 is for all day, every day. Virago 24-7 is a weekly podcast that brings diverse women together to talk about life and our experiences in this world. We share our views on self-love, mental health, marriage, children, friendships, and really anything that needs to be talked about. Here you will find everyday growth, everyday healing with everyday warriors. That is gross. That is not what I meant.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:That is not. We're recording now.
SPEAKER_00:You're the one who said it. Oh, yeah, run that back. Yes. I was disagreeing with you. Like a good husband.
SPEAKER_05:Guys, I was looking to see when's the last time we recorded. We got we got something from 2023. And then the last one was 2024.
unknown:Oh.
SPEAKER_03:Like January of 2024.
SPEAKER_00:A full year. Yes. Almost two. Two. Actually, it was two. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So a lot has happened. Let's record with the men of Virago. Welcome, Justin Philip. Milky. Milky. Milky brought a laptop or an iPad. He's going to take notes. Because these two old men are going to uh school him.
SPEAKER_02:Hey, I'm here to learn.
SPEAKER_05:So, Philip, you wanted us to gather here today on this fine December 27th.
SPEAKER_07:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Merry Christmas.
SPEAKER_04:Merry Merry Christmas.
SPEAKER_00:Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Yes.
SPEAKER_05:It's like Philip has something on his heart.
SPEAKER_00:But you know what? We were probably one of the more popular podcasts, the men of Raga.
SPEAKER_05:Out of my 100 and something shows, yours was the most popular. I love that.
SPEAKER_00:I said one of the most popular. I mean, everyone was talking about Justin. He was like a little superstar. Podcast superstar. So I was like, you know what? It's been a little bit. So let's let's get back. We haven't done men of Rago in now almost two years.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, time to go.
SPEAKER_05:Let's do it. Hello, Justin. How you been?
SPEAKER_10:Good. Good. Can't complain.
SPEAKER_05:How's life been trending now?
SPEAKER_10:Well, it's been going okay. Uh no, it's it's fun. I've I've uh had some pretty nice successes recently, and uh our company was bought uh or acquired, I guess. So I uh got had that wonderful professional accomplishment happen, and uh the kids are all doing well. Mary, my oldest finished her first semester, college semester, and got all A's and all A's? Yeah, she's thriving. And my high schooler is thriving, straight A's, basically hundreds across the board, which is crazy. And then my youngest is killing it too. Uh all A's, I think he has only one B. And he did that thing on the math. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He um, you know, you're always proud of like your kids when they uh accomplish something like completely on their own. Um and you're just in awe of these like small mo little moments. But one of the things he had a county assessment test that he aced, he got a hundred, uh, and he was like one of only four students in his entire grade level to to do that in a subject like math. So and then we're talking about a kid who still goes and gets pulled out of class because um for speech and had some has an IEP and has had one since the beginning he of his school uh career, and you know, he's in fifth grade now, and and to have moments like that where it just, you know, his intelligence and his hard work pays off. It's it's a really proud moment. And he did it all in, he was so hyped about it. It was really cool to see to see a kid you know be hyped about a big accomplishment like that. Yeah, so and he's got yeah, he said the other day, which is great, is uh he goes, Yeah, this is this is kind of the best year ever. It's been like the best this has been like like probably one of the best years ever. I love it.
SPEAKER_05:He has such a sweet spirit, yeah.
SPEAKER_10:He surely does.
SPEAKER_02:He does.
SPEAKER_05:Milky, what's what's up with you, Mina?
SPEAKER_02:Well, um, I got into dental school 2024, and yes, that was a journey.
SPEAKER_01:That was a journey.
SPEAKER_02:That was a journey, a lot of hard work, and now we are um almost done with second year, and we're about to enter third year um next semester. And you said we. So why why do you say we?
SPEAKER_09:Well, that's how you see how that's really he means him and his and his fellow classmates.
SPEAKER_10:He goes by we web now.
SPEAKER_08:I say we because it's we I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:I say we because I feel like it's a collective issue, so you know if I win, we all win, you know. Okay, but um throughout uh dental school I um met my significant other and um everything's been very well, very good. I've been learning a lot about you know just kind of being being considered now a couple versus last time I was just single, and so it's a lot of um it's a learning process for me, actually, all of this.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, we're gonna talk you hold that though, because I got lots of questions. Philip, how you been? Because I have questions about that.
SPEAKER_00:I've been good. Uh we've had a lot of deaths recently. With my older sister just last Monday. Went to the funeral. Oh, I've got to go. Went to the funeral two weeks ago. She passed away unexpectedly from a heart attack. So that was hard. And uh but you know, we went last weekend to Arkansas and at our uh funeral, and most of my brothers and and my sister uh was there, so we got a chance to reconnect. Uh, so that was great. So it was just emotionally draining. And then one of our close friends, Charles Brogdon, passed away. How long ago was that? Like a month. End of October. End of October. So like back-to-back people that were really close to us in our in our lives. So that part was um emotional and draining, to be honest. And then professionally, um things are getting going really well, thriving. We're about to make a change in the in the practice, which is gonna be for the better with a new office manager, and we're gonna ready to uh bring Brian to be our new uh office manager. So that's exciting. I know she's gonna kill it and she's gonna bring something new to the team, new to the practice, new to our success. And then personally, you know, the kids are doing well. Kaelin is working in within her uh degree when she graduated from SCAD. So now she's graduated from SCAD with honors, and then she's now working in a playhouse downtown and uh is a station manager.
SPEAKER_03:Stage manager.
SPEAKER_00:Stage manager, sorry, stage manager. And then Khalil is in his senior year of high school. We're hoping here in the next month or so we'll get some good news with him getting a scholarship for football in college, because that's his dream of uh playing football in college, and then our ninth grader, he will. He's thrive. My ninth grader, she's thriving, and and uh doing her ice skating. She has a great skin uh friend group that they're always at our house, which he'll be in our house in two days, spending the night. So yeah, everybody's kind of like a lot of sleepovers.
SPEAKER_10:I just want to be on the record to say that that Corinne ice skating is like it's so dreamlike. Like and the fact like how she did it is that has been that has been like so pure and fun and and and the way she just loves it. She loves it.
SPEAKER_05:I am going to learn how to n ice skate. I'm like, you don't even know how to put on ice skating. No, she's like, that's exactly how it started.
SPEAKER_01:Woke up one day and said, you know what?
SPEAKER_00:I want to ice skate.
SPEAKER_01:I guess I'm gonna learn.
SPEAKER_00:And she goes this morning, like she goes like three to four times a week. Yes, she's committed. And only one of those times is with her coach. Oh, yeah. It's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_10:Has she done Rockefeller Center yet?
SPEAKER_05:We did ice skating at Rockefeller Center. Her and I went to New York for Christmas. I think it was two or three years ago.
SPEAKER_10:Oh, she needs to return now. She's got all the moves for it.
SPEAKER_05:She could barely do it then, and we bought tickets and it was like midnight.
SPEAKER_10:It was so awesome. Next time, don't go to Rockefeller, go to Bryant Park. It's a much better experience. There's a Barnes and Noble right across the street. You can get done, you can go over there, the Barnes and Noble.
SPEAKER_05:It's it's a nicer area, and Rockefeller is kind of overrated.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, it's way too much.
SPEAKER_05:It looks more magical in the movies. Sorry, New Yorkers. That's how I feel. That's my opinion. In your opinion?
SPEAKER_08:Dang, dang.
SPEAKER_05:Can we can we shift back to Milky?
SPEAKER_08:How do we transition to this?
SPEAKER_04:Well, I was asking the hard-hitting question.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, we need we need a break. We need a clean break to be like the music changes.
SPEAKER_01:Enough with the family stuff and all of the fluff.
SPEAKER_10:The lights dim. Why is there a spotlight on Milk Venus right now? How did you do that with the lighting?
SPEAKER_09:That's perfect.
SPEAKER_05:So we're in a committed relationship.
SPEAKER_02:We are in a committed relationship.
SPEAKER_05:You said last time, yeah, you were very single.
SPEAKER_09:So we heard about your dating and the women and the women.
SPEAKER_05:The one woman. Just kidding. He doesn't he she's the first one ever. So how's it been?
SPEAKER_02:It's been very good. It's been a very good experience. Um and Okay, Paget Queen. Hey, leave Miss Congeniality alone.
SPEAKER_05:He's like, it's been very good and world peace.
SPEAKER_02:It's been a very good experience. We're both in dental school, so she's also my classmate. So we've just been focusing a lot on dental school. We're going through this very hard journey together. And most of our focus is basically on passing, basically, you know. So we're getting to know each other within stress, also, you know, all the stuff that the school brings. And that's it.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, the end of the podcast.
SPEAKER_04:Are we gonna get deep? Are we gonna get Z? Anybody?
SPEAKER_10:What's the rating of this podcast? Is this a TV MA or Yeah?
SPEAKER_05:You guys can say whatever you want, however you want.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, there you go. Um, I mean, ours to be honest, like there's really no we we met, everything was pretty nice.
SPEAKER_10:You have a meat cute story, don't you? Huh? You have a meat cute story. I mean, yes, it was it's like the first time you saw her, like what was or the first time you actually met. You you literally have told this. I think you've told this before. Yeah, you did. He has still told this.
SPEAKER_02:To be honest, like my intentions, because dental school was so hard for me to get in, my intentions was to just really focus on on that. I'm a non-traditional student, so that means I'm a more older, I took a different route than the the casual, the I went to school, took my prerequisites and got accepted. That wasn't my case. And because it was so hard for me, I didn't go in with the intention of dating anybody. So so no matter who I saw, it wasn't it just wasn't the for for me, I interpreted that it wasn't the time for me to meet anybody. Right. So uh what happened was that I just uh we live in the same different apartments, but we're in the same building, and we just saw each other here and there, but it was never nothing. And in our building, they give free breakfast every Monday. And because of school, I I never had the chance to get the breakfast. So I saw that her and her friend got breakfast, and I was just like, oh man, now that I now that I see you guys have breakfast, I I was craving it and all that. But within all this, we were just talking or saying, Hey, I am bye, but I've never taught anything about it. And then like one day she she or that same day she bought me like the yogurt that they were giving out. She actually bought me one and gave it to me. And then um, I'm like this type of guy that I'm just really cool and really focused. But just if you open that door just a little bit, uh so I was like, why did she do all this?
SPEAKER_09:And I was talking to another guy, the man's like, Why would you think? And she was like, No, maybe she's trying to be friendly. I was like, I don't know. That was a joke. It's like, hey, she got you a yogurt, bro. She didn't see it, you know what that means?
SPEAKER_02:So I kept like putting myself in situations that I would see her and and and stuff like that, and just I would just kinda like make conversation. It got to the point that it's like, man, she's actually a really cool friend. Like, I would I just you know, it it's it's just if anything doesn't amount to anything, she's still a good friend. But it it did amount to something, and then and that's it.
SPEAKER_05:We just kind of do you guys even know when a girl likes you? Or you guys just clueless?
SPEAKER_00:That's a good question. I don't know.
SPEAKER_05:Or some guys think friendly is flirting. So, like, do you guys know the difference? Or just creeper guys just assume everybody likes them? Is that what you're doing?
SPEAKER_01:No, I'm not calling you guys creeper guys.
SPEAKER_05:But no, you know how some guys, if you're just friendly or if you even make eye contact all of a sudden, oh yeah, she definitely wants me stalkers. But most guys, most normal guys like you guys probably don't know, right?
SPEAKER_10:I mean I mean, I don't think I've I don't have interactions on a regular basis where I can gauge or I have a gauge for for all that, but I I kind of I feel like I'm confident enough to say that I do know when somebody is more than just being like he said, friendly.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I thought you liked me, but you didn't. Really?
SPEAKER_09:Well, it's all coming out.
SPEAKER_05:Again, zero signs.
SPEAKER_00:See, I thought you did them.
SPEAKER_05:Sweet.
SPEAKER_00:But you kissed me first.
SPEAKER_05:Oh my god. Oh, yes. That's not true.
SPEAKER_00:Or you kissed me, you kissed me for real for the second time at Justin's parents.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:Hey. Hey, my house. My house does that. But a real kiss, it was you kissing me.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it was on your guys' your parents' fireplace.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:You had a party and we were sitting on the fireplace.
SPEAKER_00:What party was this?
SPEAKER_05:It was just like one of your mini parties. Like, I wanted to know what party this is. It was just it wasn't a wild one.
SPEAKER_00:No, I know it wasn't a wild one, but we went to what's that burger place on Pleasant Hills?
SPEAKER_05:Shhake shop. Shink Shake Sack. We didn't.
SPEAKER_00:We went into Sake Zack afterwards. All of us.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. And and had burgers like a hand.
SPEAKER_10:I don't remember. See? Ask Anna, see what it remembers.
SPEAKER_01:It was a long time ago. Oh, wait a minute. We have that picture. Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_10:Oh my god. Okay, I remember it now. I remember it now. Why? We had that. Why did we have that party? Was that a Friendsgiving? No, that was a Friendsgiving. It was in November, wasn't it? Alright, we're sidetracked. I know we're sidetracked.
SPEAKER_02:I just wanted to know. Was it in your parents' office and one over there? Yeah.
unknown:Hey.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. That house was there forever.
SPEAKER_10:Hey, hey.
SPEAKER_02:Not her first, won't be her last. I kind of have an idea when a girl likes me, but sometimes it's not it's not 100% accurate. Like, you know, sometimes you think and and it's not, or sometimes you don't think, and it is.
SPEAKER_10:Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So it's um it's a little bit with her. I wasn't really sure because um uh because since so in school, when you go in, you have to do like orientation and stuff like that. So everybody will be on the same page, but there's a part of orientation to talk about like sexual harassment and stuff like that. And then they really just when they talk about sexual harassment, they're just talking to guys. They're not it's not everybody has to take it, but the audience is guys. This is just for you. The men in the room, this is for you. Yeah, in every scenario, it's always like right, right, exactly. So when they pick scenarios, because they do videos and stuff, that's always like this guy who's just like doing something that like over extreme, and it's the girls just doesn't know, and it's just like I thought we're just gonna throw out the trash, like we're gonna bring that like So they they kept giving these scenarios of like a guy's always misinterpreting or always wanting a little bit more. So in my mind, I'm like, I it always second, I always second guess, and I'm glad that I always do that. But eventually I ended up being right, because like she always wanted to study with me or stuff like that. So I was like, okay, like say less. You don't gotta give me too much. I I get it.
SPEAKER_05:Or maybe it's because you're like really smart and she just wanted to study with you. That could have been it, too. Didn't you have those in dental school, Philip?
SPEAKER_02:You're smart, you're a smart guy. Yes, yes, I did.
SPEAKER_05:But they always they always liked you too.
SPEAKER_02:It was a one-win.
SPEAKER_05:Oh my gosh. Um, I taught you how to process emotions.
SPEAKER_10:The Dallas Cowboys.
SPEAKER_05:What's something?
SPEAKER_09:Extreme, extreme emotions.
SPEAKER_01:Let's dig into that.
SPEAKER_10:Sorry, sorry. Still, still we the boys. DC for life.
SPEAKER_00:So high, so DC for life. Your fork. And then for three weeks, we're just like, oh my goodness, I'm done with football.
SPEAKER_05:No, and then Philip is still watching the I still watch it. I'm like, they do games. Of course. Of course.
SPEAKER_10:That's what a fan does. You gotta watch. You you still watch. Even though it means I still cheer, dog was the halftime show, so gotta watch for Snoop.
SPEAKER_05:I missed it.
SPEAKER_10:Oh, you missed it. It was actually really good. That's what I heard. Your dog was all over the next a lot of respect for that guy. Dude came out just full-on blood outfit. It was great. Oh, I did see that.
SPEAKER_00:So quite so when did you realize that she did like you?
SPEAKER_10:Oh, because so I kinda had an idea, but she gave you the hug and it was the full body one. It wasn't the No, it wasn't that there was no pat on the back.
SPEAKER_02:It was no full body hug, but she was one day sitting one day sitting next to me, and I think her like knee touched, like Oh, you gotta touch knees. Yeah, and then she didn't move it. So I was like, okay, so she's getting comfortable around me. So then I was like, all right, I'll be right back. Since so I went up to my apartment. I um got some mouthwash, you know.
SPEAKER_09:You know, you put mouthwash in your knee.
SPEAKER_00:You put mouthwash in your knee.
SPEAKER_09:Um is it me?
SPEAKER_00:But you you forgot the last thing. Y'all not just dating. No, we're not dating.
SPEAKER_02:So he doesn't want to show that. So okay, so so okay, so before before we started studying together, I just kind of noticed things were going out fine, but um I because of the orientation video, I just didn't want to assume, and I was being very careful because like what I said in the beginning, for me to go to dental school is really, really hard. So I don't want to do something that would just backfire on me and then it will jeopardize my career. So versus if we were in a different environment, my my actions towards a lot of things will be totally different. So I'm really working, being extra careful, being extra sure, because again, I have my career in mind. So um, throughout all of that stuff, to be honest, I was like, I I just prayed. Uh man of God, and we do pray, and I think I do believe that God just guides us. And I said, God, uh, you know, I I have all this experience, like Lanea said, I dated before and all that stuff. And I said, God, I don't want to use none of my games, I don't want to do anything. I want you to guide me. And if this is the person that you want, then I want you to just align things how they're supposed to be. Like literally, that was my prayer. And I never prayed that in my life. I never prayed for girls, I never prayed for like a future wife. None of that stuff. None of that, none of that stuff. I don't know. I just kind of felt that I was irrelevant and until this moment. So then when I started talking to her, I started seeing how she used to talk about her relationship with God and and certain things, and she would just um and these are things as a guide that you want to see because eventually what you're would like now in my age, what you're looking for is somebody who to settle in to build the family, and these types of morals are super important. Well, we could talk about um why they are, but um super important for me to establish something. Um, because there's certain things, and I've been with girls who are really beautiful and all that, but then every time they talk, there's a course word after, and then I always think about dangers, if I bring her next to my nephew or my nieces or stuff like that. So these are things I I I don't say that out loud, but these are things I consider behind my mind, and I still go with it, but I already know that this is not the move. But before it was just different, I kept saying all these things, and way before I think on the first podcast, uh with Philip, we started making a list of things that I thought was important when I do pick an ideal person. Oh, yeah, yeah. So all of that stuff we went through, all of that stuff came together around that time, and then she checked off the boxes. Yeah, she checked off the boxes. We we need to have boxes, we need to have, as men, we need to have requirements sometimes. Yeah, and um, because these are things that will determine how we're gonna live our life. Now, remember that we talked last time that I've seen a lot of my friends get married, and around this time I'm seeing them a lot of them get divorced. And um, and it's hard. Like guys don't talk about it, but when they do, we really go through it. And so this part is extremely important to make all the other parts work.
SPEAKER_00:And that's why we did that list, though.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So for my sister who listens to the podcast, I got that from her. We wanted to make a soulmate list. Like, what are the requirements? What are the things? I don't know, what's your values? What things are your things that you're looking for in the soulmate, and what are your deal deal breakers when it comes to that? So we did that before you started demo school, so you have to got a chance to kind of see if she was um or came close to that list.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Because the pro the question is, what happens when you don't have the list? What happened, I think, is sometimes we rely on other factors and we get comfortable with those factors, and then eventually over time, we we get it wrong because we're humans, not because we're a bad person. Right. But in reality, you know, we guys know my a person can have all of these good things that I like, but if she doesn't look attractive to me, but then it goes the other way. If she does look attractive to you, but she doesn't have all of this stuff. So I think it's important uh have this.
SPEAKER_00:Because if you don't have it, then then you have no you have no uh guidelines. I have no guidelines.
SPEAKER_05:Did you not have a list?
SPEAKER_10:I did not have a list. No, no. Uh I had um tradition, I guess, Catholic tradition, and and you know, um met somebody that met all of the val I think actually it was a lot of core values stuff. There was a lot of values that were there.
SPEAKER_05:So do you guys think that's the only thing that we need in a marriage is core values or like what else should we be looking for?
SPEAKER_00:That's a good question. That is a good question. I think based on my list, we had some core value things on there because you know, those are kind of like deal breakers if you don't have the same values because with my first wife, I didn't I didn't look at the list. Because I had the list. I had the list. I created that list with Carol in in college. And I got married right a couple of years after dental school. So yeah, I never looked at that list. I just put it in my Bible and left it there. So if I had looked at that list, I probably would not have gotten married. But the other things on the list, it didn't matter how superficial the things were.
SPEAKER_04:You're gonna challenge that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh, ladies and gentlemen, there's a flag on the play.
SPEAKER_05:There's a flag. Justin always with us, what's analogies? Flag on the play, because you guys did go to um Mayor's counseling. You guys did do marriage counseling, so even though you didn't have the list, yeah.
SPEAKER_08:What's your marriage counseling? Went to mayor's counseling I went to marriage counseling.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no, but his marriage counseling.
SPEAKER_05:But this is what happened in his marriage counseling.
SPEAKER_00:Things came up in the marriage counseling that were other red flags without me looking at the list. That is correct. I probably wouldn't even got the chance to the marriage counsel if I'd looked at the list. But since I didn't look at the list, we got to the point where we were getting ready to get married, and we went to marriage counseling. And um, yeah, some things came up that were n were red flags, and one of them was why are we getting married? And mine was, you know, the fairy tale out of love. And hers was well, you know, it's convenient, it's good. We're both professionals, we both like some of the same things, and it'd be a good match. And that was her answer. So when we came home that day, I was like, What in the world did you what did you mean by that? She said, Oh, you know, it wasn't like I it wasn't like how we thought I meant, but it really was. But and then I ignored that.
SPEAKER_05:So my point is that you would have ignored the list, too. Like you would have still gotten married.
SPEAKER_00:I think sometimes at some point, this is why I said no, because at that point we were already engaged.
SPEAKER_05:Uh people can break off engagement because that's peasy.
SPEAKER_00:They can. And if I had the list, we're probably just dating. That's a big difference. That's an easier uh way to exit, or you know, when you're just dating someone. When you're engaged and all of those things, and you've sent out all the invitations, and you set the waiting date, and even though that all this stuff is not the reason to continue to get married, but to be honest, that was the reason why we did, because a couple of days before I was with my with Eric, and I told him, I said, Man, I don't think I should be getting married. You know, at the time we thought it was just jitters or you know, but it wasn't that, obviously, because that's why she's my first wife.
SPEAKER_05:That is a that is a cautionary tale. Little children, listen to that.
SPEAKER_07:I love it.
SPEAKER_05:And then he met me and he got the list right. A hundred percent and it worked out.
SPEAKER_10:Didn't you write the list though?
SPEAKER_01:I wasn't even there. I was probably 18. I was only like 10 years old when you wrote the list.
SPEAKER_03:I love it. I love it.
SPEAKER_10:Um Well, I I I'll say this. Look at this. Uh I like that you met her like a not a traditional way, but outside of I guess, like dating apps or social meetups, or you know, like those intentional, purposeful ways of going out and trying to find somebody. Correct. Whether it be a hookup or a long-term relationship. You you did it outside of technology, you just did it out of circumstance.
SPEAKER_07:Right.
SPEAKER_10:And it's cool because you guys all come from very different backgrounds too. Yeah, very different backgrounds.
SPEAKER_05:So have you guys ever gotten feedback from a woman? Obviously, you two have, because you two are married, Philip and Justin, that forced you to confront yourself. And Milky, have you had that yet? Like when we give you feedback, have you taken it and confronted yourself with that feedback?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, I have three sisters, and I also have gotten um constructive feedback from Lyonette.
SPEAKER_05:And guess what, Milky? I'm being real nice. I'm like not even giving you my full feedback.
SPEAKER_02:I'm not scared. That's the uh annihilation.
SPEAKER_09:I will scare him away.
SPEAKER_02:I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_05:But what is it? Like what? I need an example.
SPEAKER_02:What is it? Feedback like concerning sp my my specific relationship right now, or just uh just pick anything, any woman in your life is anything. Um so so okay, so I guess I'll I'll start with with my mom, an example. Um she is a person who um um f very family orien oriented. She wants all of us to just kind of uh get along and stuff like that. And um I guess one of the things is just which is really important is just um I guess religion. Um because you know, she understands that we go back to values um and if we hold different type of values, things will I'm not saying it's gonna break up or anything like that. And another thing, the the the list is not bulletproof because people are allowed to change, and that's that's a reality. But it's just taking all the right steps, so at least you say you took all the right stuff.
SPEAKER_05:But but yeah, I mean, I I'm trying to think anything like something that might kind of catch you off guard. Like with Philip, I'm like, uh, you're too nice and to to everybody, and she likes you, and I don't know, like stuff like that. Like, or you're being selfish in this moment, like that kind of stuff where it feels negative, but you have to confront that this might be true about myself.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well then then yeah, so my own my own girlfriend, she she sh that's that's one of the uh things I have a lot of friends. I I make friends very how would I say friends? I just get to know people very easily, and it's just it's just in my nature. I don't I don't try to, but it just kind of happens. I just find people very interesting and and people like to talk about themselves and I like to hear about that, and and all of a sudden one thing goes to another, and and all of a sudden I got that person's phone number and male or female, and it's just it's just that what happens it it it gets all their numbers, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So male or female digits.
SPEAKER_02:It's just it's just things that happen like uh it's just being friendly, right? It's just being friendly, yeah, exactly. That and that's what I guess one of my one of my things from her is just that um I'm don't be so friendly.
SPEAKER_05:Don't be so friendly. Don't be so friendly.
SPEAKER_01:But then but then especially with the females.
SPEAKER_02:But then she says that she doesn't want to change me and and she likes the way I am, so it's just like one of those one of those things that I just don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_05:Like I would, you know she's trying to change that part of you. You know because I I would.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, don't get go.
SPEAKER_02:No, but I'm just letting you know what she's saying. I I don't know, like I'm telling you what she means.
SPEAKER_05:Stop getting the digits.
SPEAKER_09:Stop getting digits.
SPEAKER_05:I'm not trying to change all of you, but this part of you makes sense.
SPEAKER_09:Right.
SPEAKER_02:When I mean digits, I'm not talking about female or only digits, I'm just meaning like hey, my god, I you know, I don't judge it.
SPEAKER_09:We listen and we don't judge.
SPEAKER_05:Leonette listens and she judges. Stop getting the female digits. There's no reason for that.
SPEAKER_06:Correct.
SPEAKER_05:Why do you want to have a new friend that's a woman? Like, what's the purpose of getting a number for a female? Like, we you know, you guys don't need friends. You guys don't need friends like that. Um I think it's good to have a mix of friends. No, why not? Not new ones, old built-in ones, yes.
SPEAKER_02:But again, I it's a situation that happen. It's not like I'm uh intentionally looking for like female friends.
SPEAKER_08:I really don't have time to have again, my people explain your dynamic too, because your two roommates are okay. So wait, so you can't have wait, no, no, no. I I don't know about this because this talks about this this this is I have a good experience with this.
SPEAKER_05:This is something I've never ever gone out, and I'm sure I've could give out my number to a lot of men. Yeah, and it's a hell no. I am married, and I literally keep it pushing and I keep it moving. I don't even glance sideways. It was nice to see you in the coffee line. Like, there's just no reason or a purpose to be handing out your phone number just to like people. That doesn't make sense to me.
SPEAKER_00:What do you mean? Opposite sex, is what you're saying.
SPEAKER_10:No, but what if it was a dude? Like for me? No, or no, like No, I wouldn't. Or no, for for like for us. Why?
SPEAKER_05:I've met a lot of female friends while I've been married. That's different. Like it's just it's just the perception of it. I don't I don't know. It just seems ugly like why why put yourself in that position? Like, why?
SPEAKER_00:True. Well, I'm gonna say this too, because uh women are definitely a lot more complex than men. Men are very simple, I feel, in the sense that we say what we say, we mean what we mean. And I don't think a lot of women are that way. So from experience, having female friends, sometimes our interpretation is they're just a friend. But they may think that it's more than that, right? Because we're being friendly, because we're, you know, having a conversation or or things like that. So, you know, I just wouldn't put myself in a a position that for that even an opportunity.
SPEAKER_02:Right, but it's it's very also important to understand that their perception doesn't mean it's reality.
SPEAKER_00:Now if they were single, then that wouldn't matter. Right. But if you're married to someone, then you also have to keep in mind what your significant other's perception is, too, because that is their reality. Right. So and whose reality are do you want to uh adhere to or uh honor or respect is is gonna be your your significant other's reality in that and they I I had a lot of female friends and a lot of past tense is that he said I had a lot of female friends, he still has a lot of female friends.
SPEAKER_05:This is the thing Philip has a lot of female friends, and he he goes to lunch with some of them, or he's gone to dinner with them, and I don't have a problem with certain with those women, I really don't, because I'm friendly with them too, and they go without me. Um but it's the out and about just randomly getting somebody just because we had a moment that doesn't make sense. The friends that you have are past friends, and also they're they're more um professional friends that have they be they started off professionally and they turned into friendships. And I and I understand that and I respect it. And you know all of them now the ones that I was like, oh hell to them now, they ain't here anymore because I'm like she ain't and she like some of them were just waiting for us to fail. Yeah, it was like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh no, it's like, are you happy?
SPEAKER_01:I used to well, when he's not happy, he'll be calling your raggedy ass, that's for sure. He's learned when he's one of those.
SPEAKER_05:So those people almost like you can just be like, yeah, no, that they're not here to be your friend.
SPEAKER_07:True.
SPEAKER_05:So, anyways, that's my perspective. It doesn't make sense. So you're gonna have a hard road.
SPEAKER_02:No, but I I agree with that too. When it's professionally, when it's um somebody who's like um who can help you grow, and and they both of us knowing we agree with it. I don't I don't disagree with it.
SPEAKER_10:Well, what about if exchanging Instagrams?
SPEAKER_05:What's the point? I don't know. I don't know why are we changing Instagrams?
SPEAKER_02:So you can have more followers, you know. Like Yeah, I'm trying to get certified.
SPEAKER_05:Like, I don't you want that blue check mark?
SPEAKER_09:I want the blue check mark.
SPEAKER_05:Philip just got on Instagram so he can see all the videos that I sent him.
SPEAKER_07:He can't open them.
SPEAKER_05:The other day I was like, oh, you're on Instagram now. He's like, Yeah, because you sent me all those videos and I can't open them. I thought you were trying to be able to do it. I thought you were trying to go into a whole new world of like, you know.
SPEAKER_09:Be careful, man. Algorithm, you gotta watch out. You gotta check it weekly.
SPEAKER_00:I have all that is what she says. Oh boy.
SPEAKER_05:Oh my gosh. Okay, so Milky, we're gonna work on that. Justin, is there anything that a woman has said to you? I'm pretty sure that that's funny.
SPEAKER_10:No, actually, uh, believe it or not, um, I've got a clean record. And then I'm I get a perfect score across the board.
SPEAKER_05:A perfect score of being the best husband, the best.
SPEAKER_02:I like how he disagree himself, you know.
SPEAKER_10:Uh let's just say I get feedback daily.
SPEAKER_04:Not saying it'd be hourly.
SPEAKER_01:Look at your phone. You might be giving it right now. What time are you giving up?
SPEAKER_05:Oh, Justin. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10:You're working on the you're working on that. No, no. Um there there have been some things that have been feedback that I've received where I've been able to take a step back and actually listen, I think, is is one of the big ones. And I think more of that has more to do with uh uh I've um went to therapy this year for the first time in my life and it was um different and uh I don't think I've ever like shared anything, you know, with anybody like that ever before and kind of have a sense of vulnerability. So it that I think, you know, the fact that I had gone, I think maybe is some feedback of like, oh, maybe I do need to work on some things, right? And um and so it's it's you know It's patient but for me it's mostly it's like patience, like the thing I snap really quickly sometimes. And it's just I don't know why. It it it's just the way I was wired, I guess. I grew up around it, you know, quick to snap, high pressure, like a lot of stress, that kind of things, anxiety anxiety. That was the other thing like I learned uh so apparently that I uh deal with uh which I didn't know. I I just thought I was like, oh no, it's just irritable.
SPEAKER_05:So like it stems from being anxious.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, yeah. I was being anxious uh because I'm finding myself, I guess you know, when you start aging, you get older, and I'm going through my midlife crisis now. So you know, I'm getting you just got a new tattoo. I just I just got a new tattoo. Like I've lost like at least 25 pounds. Uh you know, I'm running, yeah. I'm joined a run couple. I joined a run club. Like how like I'm just like how white is that?
SPEAKER_09:Like I joined a run club at a brewery in a public how white is that?
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, that's pretty white.
SPEAKER_04:For those that don't know, but believe it or not, he is Mexican. Yeah, the best part.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, oh yeah, by the way. By the way, it was it was it was it was really funny because there's another guy that's there, and his la we share the same last name. Yeah, yeah. So he saw I guess he saw it on Instagram. I liked the picture, and then he noticed my name. And your name is so uncommon. Yeah, but I'm I'm starting to find it a lot more common now, oddly enough. Yeah, then the the the new president of Venezuela is a machalo.
SPEAKER_04:Really?
SPEAKER_10:We have uh we have uh Miss Universe is a machalo, we have uh, you know, um we're we're all over the place.
SPEAKER_05:So he has but you guys are not related.
SPEAKER_10:No, he's he's Brazilian, so he speaks Portuguese. He doesn't speak Spanish.
SPEAKER_05:Philip, what kind of feedback have I given you?
SPEAKER_10:There's so many.
SPEAKER_05:No, I'm kidding. Anybody, it doesn't have to be me.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I would say with you, I would say the that was probably one of our biggest things that we would talk about is um my female friends. Because I always walked into a relationship thinking, you know, I have female friends, and whoever I'm dating, if they're the right person, they'll be okay with it. And that is a very um bachelor approach to that process. And but I did see that there's always uh perception, perception is the biggest thing, and you just never want to put yourself in that position because the biggest thing I always say when I look at that is you're you're first defensive when someone's pointing something out that you're not doing something correctly or you're wrong. And then secondly, it's more of um dang, what do I need to do? Is she right? Let me think about it, let me self-reflect, let me be a little bit more self-aware of the circumstances because there are some things that you realize that you don't want to that you feel like, yeah, I I could have handled that differently, or I could have made a b better decision, or I could have been more um open about certain things that took place. Um because I think just which an a uh thing that my sister gave me advice, Carolyn, was to always be um truthful and open. Because you're truthful and open, you don't have to think about it. And you don't have to um it it is what it is at that point. So if you're open, you're honest, and whatever you're saying, it's not something you have to remember. You know, you don't want to have to go back and explain yourself later. It's best to always just lead with with that. And then at that point, you know, that that port other person has to make a choice.
SPEAKER_05:I'm glad you learned because that wasn't always the case.
SPEAKER_00:That is true. That is true.
SPEAKER_05:At all. It it's it's one of those things, you're right, being open and honest, because the times that you were not open and honest, and then I caught you because I'm a detective. Then it's just then it's just like now I can't trust anything. Now I can't trust anything he says. So be open and honest, Milky. Before you you gotta learn these lessons before you get married, because it's gonna like help you. It's gonna help you in the long run. Now we're on to the next question. What does partnership partnership mean when both people are ambitious and evolving? Or just evolving, because some people aren't ambitious and that's fine, but just evolving and growing and changing.
SPEAKER_00:What does partnership mean when both people are evolving? Evolving, growing. I think that makes the partnership even stronger.
SPEAKER_03:When they're both growing.
SPEAKER_00:When they're both growing.
SPEAKER_03:Now, if one person's growing and the other person is growing.
SPEAKER_00:Then that's an issue. Then that's a big issue.
SPEAKER_03:Why is that an issue?
SPEAKER_00:Because you see things differently now than what your partner would be. So their perspective, their reality, their things that they're okay with, you're not okay with anymore.
SPEAKER_05:The thing is, like if one person is growing and the other one's staying the same, the person that is growing, their eyes become open. Like, yeah, you were used to this for the longest, but then when you start learning different ways of thinking and and perceiving things, then it you can't unsee it. So then you start seeing that this person's not even willing to grow, they're not even trying to change, they're not even evolving with me, and that's a huge problem. And I've seen it in a lot of marriages, and they don't end up staying together.
SPEAKER_02:I I have a friend in the in the Dominican Republic that um him and his wife, they they were doing really, really well together. They have a huge construction company, and basically he because they're doing so well, um, he started paying for her schooling so he could um and she wanted to be like a lawyer or something like that, and through that get into politics. And all of a sudden, you know, as she was going through her schooling and she graduated, she all of a sudden started looking at her husband like he was like obsolete, like almost like dumb. But he finally asked everything. Yes, he he wasn't the most smartest guy, but what he did, he was really good at.
SPEAKER_06:Right.
SPEAKER_02:But academically, he never kind of got into her level, but he elevated her to be that. Did they grow apart or something? They they kind of did grow apart, but I don't know um if because if it's justifiable, because there's there has to be a sense. I mean, I don't know. I I don't know. I just from the outside looking in, I'm thinking like, even though you elevated and everything like that, like your question was it's still a partnership. He's he's still your partner. Even though your eyes are open, you guys are still a a team. Right. And and we don't need to be looking, even if my eyes are open more, you you're still with me by my side. That's that's right.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's more intellectual. I'm talking about more like emotional intelligence. You know, like as a person, you're growing, you know, not not more, which is that's a good example, because some people do advance in in degrees or education, and then they look down at their partner like they're not as smart or things like that. That's that's a great example of it. What my what I was talking about is more emotional intelligence. So, like, what's an example of like emotional like like you don't take everything, like if you're not as emotional intelligent, every time someone says something to you, it's not your fault. Or it's it's a reason why you did it, it's an excuse. Versus if you have emotional intelligence, you look at it like, okay, I may have had a part in this problem or a situation, or I can see your point of view. But people that don't have emotional intelligence, their point of view is the only point of view. Yeah. And then that point, you are you're growing apart because now you see every conflict. Someone without emotional intelligence sees every conflict as that other person's issue. Or there's outside influences that they have no control over. Someone with emotional intelligence that has grown, they see everything as an opportunity, or they also see the part that they played in it. And if you have those two people, you're gonna grow apart. Because someone that has more emotional intelligence, some people say maturity, some people say, you know, experience or whatever. Maybe not experience, because people have experience still don't learn sometimes. But this is more of, yeah, just emotional intelligence. I see that as being um a big issue.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, in that situation with your friend, that kind of stinks, but it's also possible that she already had feelings before that, and then she went and got educated even more, and then saw that that's this is realized that this is not the life I want.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, there's a lot of different factors, but you know, and the reason I'm kind of saying this is because you know, I'm in a relationship and I'm learning how what partnership, and I'm learning a lot of I'm I'm hearing the word a lot about commitment. And when all these words and all these stuff comes through, it makes me feel like even when whatever happens, we are committed, we have said this, we're gonna go through this, we're together, partnerships, but it it's just like all this stuff you read and you study, but then when you look at real life, it's just like circumstances is what tells us what we really are. I don't know if it makes sense what I'm explaining, right? Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_00:Because some things are reality and some things are theory. Right. In theory, everything's great. We're gonna be a partnership, we're gonna work together, we're gonna share, we're gonna come to a common ground, you know, all those little catchphrases. But you know, when the reality sits in, you have like, this is how I feel, and this is how I feel, and it's not gonna always be the same, what do you do then? Well, because if you're a partnership, you gotta find some type of common ground, or you can't be just right. You know, that's what a lot of people want to be just right. Let me win this fight. And you win the fight, but you lose the war. Right. Because at that point, yeah, that's not worth it.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I remember uh of one of a friend of ours, he he said, Um, you know, in a partnership, if you win, you'll both lose. That's the thing. There you go. You're right about that. Yeah, that's so true.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, speaking of speaking of apologies and not being right all the time, um has well for the two of you, Justin, because you're not quite there yet, Milky, but you can answer it. But for Justin and and Philip, how has your what does real apology look like to you now versus earlier in your life?
SPEAKER_00:Now? Well, earlier in my life is just saying the words. If you can just say you're sorry, that would be perfect. That's that's all you need to do. And now it's actually showing action afterwards. Oh, because before you like that's a big deal for me to even say I'm sorry. You know, because when you're early you think you're always right. And then for me to even admit that I'm wrong, that's you should be good with that. That's a big deal. But now it's more of, hey, what are the actions behind what you're saying? And really truly meaning it. Because, you know, some people will know exactly if you really are sincere about your apology. Um and then some people you I guess you could fool, but yes, what what's what you do afterwards? Just the the actions and the things that you do after your apology. Are you gonna repeat what you just did or are you gonna actually like learn from it?
SPEAKER_05:Who's being?
SPEAKER_10:Uh I don't know if I understand the question say it again.
SPEAKER_05:So you're the way you apologize today, how is that different from before? Or are you the same?
SPEAKER_10:Uh yeah, I mean, I think I like I was gonna say, um I agree with Phil. I think it's the actions that follow on whether how sincere that apology is. I think also the sincerity of of the apology is probably uh is more present, I think, uh today than it was back then, you know, because really when you're young, you really only think about yourself. Like it's it's it's pretty yeah, it's pretty just about you. And when you say you're sorry, you're just like, sorry, fine, whatever, you know, that kind of sorry. Uh whereas today it's more of like, oh dang. Yeah, sorry. Uh that was me. It was my fault. I did this. All right. So it's like the acknowledgement, it's the the the accepting, and then like now the forgiving part, that's the whole other thing, that's a whole nother part of this question because I think uh having an apology is great, and I and I encourage people who you know are in the wrong to apologize. And for those who are accepting that apology or in the presence of the one who was offended by whatever prompted their apology, I think the actions beyond that is the real understanding of what that apology meant. And because if it if you're reacting and you're apologizing and you're showing the intention of changing whatever it was that prompted that, if the other person then can bring that same thing up again and what's and and just kind of pound back at that one time uh when you did something, then did they really forgive? Like now, now there's yeah. So yeah, the answer would be no. And and so then why am I apologizing when I it's it's not getting us anywhere. It's not improving or or making us become uh you know, a better partner or a better um husband or a better father or better son or whatever it may be and what you're apologizing for, coworker. So I think it it it also is put on the one who's accepting that apology to make sure that they are f truly forgiving. Um because until you know, if they don't, then I mean what what are you really doing? It's just you're gonna be cyclical at that point.
SPEAKER_05:Write that down on your iPad. Um Milkeek, that was brilliant answers, guys. Good job. 10 out of 10.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, I know. It was so great because I had ChatGPT up right here. Tell me exactly how to respond. That was brilliant.
SPEAKER_09:I don't want to get a question.
SPEAKER_10:That's a chat GPT. This uh this episode is sponsored by ChatGPT.
SPEAKER_01:I know we're gonna get my joke.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, where do you still struggle to be vulnerable?
SPEAKER_02:Actually, do you want to answer the because I think honestly you'll probably still I mean I agree with everything that that Jess said, especially with the forgiveness part.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because some people just want the apology just kind of to humil humiliate, but not for for the record. For the record, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_10:So I agree with that. To make themselves feel better. But a r a real apology is I think it's gonna go into the next question. It's uh a real apology is showing vulnerableness and having that vulnerable b vulnerableness be accepted and be seen and then to connect to that and and open up to to make real change so that moving forward it doesn't happen again, whatever the offense was.
SPEAKER_05:I like that because yeah, and I feel like that's why most people don't apologize and don't um hold themselves accountable because then they would have to be vulnerable. But is there anything that you guys struggle with still to be vulnerable?
SPEAKER_00:With who?
SPEAKER_05:Just in general, could be anything.
SPEAKER_10:Oh sex with the lights on or off with the bed sheets, with the bed sheet socks? Is it if there's socks, is that like a that's like a no-go? Or is it wide open windows? Yeah, exhibition of style.
SPEAKER_00:Like how are we doing this? How are we doing this? It's depends on the person. That's why I say with who. Like with your uh co-worker, um, my vulnerability is gonna be a lot less to some degree.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, fine. With your spouse then. With your spouse. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Um but again, as a leader, you do want to show some vulnerability to let them know that you're human and that you also make mistakes and to, you know, as an example. But when it comes to true vulnerability, I would say with my spouse or with you, um now no, but in the past, I think it was more of um showing like sad emotion. That was hard to do. You know, that was hard if you had a loss or you felt sad or you wanted to cry. Um sometimes as a man you kind of want to hold that in or feel like I can't show that or whatever. But um, yeah, I think that's what probably what it used to be when it came to that type of emotion. Cause then at that point, that person also knows what things can affect you. So you kind of look at it like, okay, what are they gonna do with this? I mean, are they gonna be are they going to respect that vulnerability or are they gonna use that later to bring up something in the from the past?
SPEAKER_03:What are your vulnerabilities?
SPEAKER_10:Vulnerabilities? Yes. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:I think my aunt my answer is not the question, though.
SPEAKER_05:Oh.
SPEAKER_10:What is my vulnerability?
SPEAKER_05:What are you still struggling with to be vulnerable? Where do you still struggle to be vulnerable?
SPEAKER_10:Where I don't know. I don't know. I don't I I d I don't have I don't have that much of a filter sometimes. And so I don't know if I'm am I being vulnerable if I don't vulnerable all the time?
SPEAKER_09:Like am I just walking around? I'm walking around with the the bee. Like, I'm vulnerable. I'm vulnerable.
SPEAKER_10:See that the ghosting I just meet you and you already know how many kids I have or a million all this other stuff. I'm a little billionaire. Like, wait, would you want paper or plastic? I was like, I'm up.
SPEAKER_04:This question is not a good thing.
SPEAKER_10:No, I mean I think vulnerability, I think it's it's uh I think honesty, I think would be for me uh being vulnerable in how I'm truly feeling. I think that's a good one. Um because I think I think for the most part, a lot of men, even even if they tell you that like like oh yeah, you know, that they're being truthful or something like that. I think as men there's still always something that is guarded about uh sharing every Thing true in a lot of situations. And it's not intentional. It's not something that that we do on purpose to hide anything. I think it's it's that fear of um what what's gonna be the reaction, right? Um especially with a partner um being you know, being that vulnerable to somebody or telling you how you really feel uh is sometimes can really get you, you know, in a lot of trouble. And for most men, you're just like, ah I don't want to do that. I'm not gonna deal with the hassle of that. Like I I know what if I say this, it's gonna be a fight, I know what's gonna happen. So you know what? Let me just be like, hey, you know, I'm sorry. Whatever.
SPEAKER_02:That's what I was gonna ask you. Do you have to like do you really have to say everything? Like now a hundred percent transparent because from my logic is telling me, sometimes if you be a hundred trans 100% transparent, you guys already know. Sometimes you are you gonna hurt that person? How transparent, how open can you can a guy really be? Like really be.
SPEAKER_00:That's a good question. I go back to what my father used to say to us is that when you have to say something to someone, can you say it with love? I like that truth. And what was that?
SPEAKER_03:Is it kind?
SPEAKER_00:What is it kind? I like that. If you can't do that, don't be truthful. Wait, is it with love? And is it the truth? And is it kind?
SPEAKER_05:Because sometimes, Milky, um you're gonna have to say something that's tough that that person doesn't want to hear. But if you're if it's coming from a place of love, how that person receives it, that's something that they have to figure out. And that's and if and if if that person doesn't ever get to that point of understanding that, then then that's that's my whole point of then that person's not growing, and then you guys grow apart. Oh, that's what you're talking about. That's what I'm talking about. Like if you bring something up and that person doesn't understand that it came from, yeah, stuff stings. He has said stuff to me. I think I'm perfect, but obviously I'm not. So when he says stuff to me, I have to sit back and yeah, it like hurts, and it's just like oh shit. But sometimes it's true, and I have to reflect on that, and then I'm like, I'm gonna have to do better next time.
SPEAKER_02:It and I just feel, and I may be might be wrong, and I don't know how this is gonna be, you know, sound, but I just feel this is like one of the things that we were talking earlier that sounds really good on theory. But it's like I just don't, I personally do not know anybody who would be a that's why you have friends, and you're have mentors, yeah, that's why you have certain people that you will say certain things.
SPEAKER_00:Your honesty may not be kind. You know, it may not be kind. So do you want to expect something to hurt somebody? Or should you not because you might be mad and want to be very honest with someone, and that probably not may not be the best time to be honest because you're gonna say something that's gonna be very hurtful. So don't say it. Because you don't have to be, because to be 100% honest all the time, that's not reality.
SPEAKER_05:Like that shirt is so ugly on you, and your butt got fat. And like, don't say stuff like that, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_10:But I thought you said to be honest.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, I'm okay with the honesty, but not all women. Everybody with it.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, you can tell me. Oh, I understand where you're coming from, but for me, you don't have to. But I have a question. So if you said three things, you said love, truthful, and kind. I understand the love and I understand the truthful. How do we I need an example of what kind means because kindness feel looks very broad.
SPEAKER_00:Well, like I said, if you're angry with someone and they ask you a question, you could answer that question out of anger, and in your mind, I'm just being honest. But and it's true, and it's true, but it's not kind. So do you want to just be mean to someone and unkind in that moment and then regret it later? You know, like you might be mad at someone and they say, Well, how do I look in this? You look a hot mess in that, but you really shouldn't say that because that's not kind.
SPEAKER_08:Well, you say that to me. You can say things.
SPEAKER_01:He said that to me, and I'm like, Well, I'm still gonna wear it because you don't know about fashion. And then I walk out the door.
SPEAKER_09:You don't know fashion.
SPEAKER_05:You only say that about one outfit, a pair of pants, and I think I finally gave them away, but they have they're floral. Oh, and he doesn't comment on my on my attire, but and then I wore some jean dress that shiny gave me, and and I walk downstairs, and all you, even the kids, what are you wearing? Because it's not really my style, but it looked cute with the boots on it. I wore it.
SPEAKER_00:See you.
SPEAKER_05:No, it looked cute. I don't wear it. I'm glad you thought that it looks very cowboy-ish, and that's but did that make sense or do you think that's no no it it make it make sense? But that's a superficial that's a superficial um.
SPEAKER_02:I'm gonna be honest though. Like, I'm honest enough to know that I'm never gonna be a hundred percent open because I understand that if I am, it's going to be a good one. Yeah. Well, it's it's gonna bring more, more, it's not gonna benefit as much as it. I will be, but not a hundred percent. I uh but maybe, maybe once I get to that relationship to that point, but I just don't see it happening practically.
SPEAKER_00:At this moment, I agree with you. You definitely will not be. That's that's that's that's that's just time and experience and situations too. If you grow from it, I just don't know. But you're never gonna be no one's gonna be 100% honest about everything. That's that's not reality to be.
SPEAKER_05:But in a marriage, I would hope that you guys can be vulnerable with like your feelings. Because I feel like if you don't if you're not honest with how you feel, then you if it you you hide it away in a little compartment and then and then it keeps keeps building and be keeps building until you resent the person and tolerated.
SPEAKER_00:But not to be mean.
SPEAKER_02:I could be, I guess I could be, I could be honest with my feelings, but I'm just trying to figure out I'm I'm thinking about so many situations.
SPEAKER_05:So give us a situation, just throw something out there because now I want to know what you're thinking, because he's talking about clothes, but I think you're thinking something different. He's over here talking about my like tell me which outfit because he keeps talking about clothes, like give us an example of what you would want to be honest about without going into detail. Like, you can just give us like generic.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I'm just trying to let me see. Um, I don't know, Justin. You have probably a lot of examples like damn.
SPEAKER_08:I'm just an innocent bystander over there.
SPEAKER_01:Dodge vulnerable.
SPEAKER_02:That's like dodges. I'll give you I'll give you a perfect example. And um, I'll give you a perfect example. I already talked about this with my girlfriend, but this is a really good example. So I I was upstairs with the guys, I was having a drink, we were talking about a common friend, and I told them, Oh, yeah, I work with that common friend, and he happens to know uh Dr. Tally and all that stuff. When we went out, he told me, hey, when you go out, the people you're gonna be around with, they're pre- they're they're pretty flirty and all this. This all in a work environment. So we were gonna go, we're gonna go to a Christmas party that was like last year. And in that Christmas party, I'm telling you, these girls, as soon as they drink, they get pretty flirty and all that stuff. And he already told me that. I still went, but after that, I had to go get my hair because I had a flight that same day. So I said, yeah, let me go. I'll just go ahead and get a have an old fashioned. So I went, I worked, I went out, I had an old fashioned, I found out that what he was saying is true. I came back, and I never discussed that with my girl. The reason why is because, first of all, I know that I wasn't gonna do anything. Second, I know that nothing happened, and third, I know that if I did discuss with my girl, the next thing that's gonna happen is when that job comes up again that they need me, she's gonna be like, don't work there. And I personally know this is nothing I struggle with. And that happened a year ago, and then this year, I was the conversation started about something that's like, oh yeah, you know, there's a situation that I never told you about, but this and this happened, and everything was cool, nothing happened. But I know that if I would have told her that in that situation, she would have not want me to actually work there again because in her mind, she don't think that I just can't control myself if I see somebody or anything like that. But so, so there's certain things that it's just not worth doing because if I say it, it's gonna just bring more harm than benefit, and that's it. But if it's something that I'm struggling with, or you know what, I'm feeling some type of way or something, I would, I would um exercise my communication skills and I would will say it. But something like this, everything, being saying everything, is it is it is it really gonna benefit, you know what I mean? And I don't know. I'm asking. I'm not I'm not saying the the way I said did this was correct, but I'm just looking at pros and cons and consequences. This is something I'm gonna deal with for a few months, or something that I'm just I didn't do anything, I didn't feel any type of way. I got my old-fashioned, yes, this happened, but I left. And I came back home and and I and everything's been fine for a whole year. So her name was old-fashioned?
SPEAKER_05:Am I picking up on the way? What is this? So, but I don't know. If you didn't do anything, then I I I agree with you that so he just got drinks with his book.
SPEAKER_10:What the nose? That's not true.
SPEAKER_05:No, I I do agree with that. So I don't understand what she would have been mad about in that situation.
SPEAKER_00:I don't I and that's the thing. Uh the situation that he's in, he's she's he's saying that she wouldn't want him to be put in that position again. Yeah, so if I get a job with those type of people, right?
SPEAKER_05:But that's a job in a listen, I can have my feelings, but when it comes to like his profession, like I'm not gonna like for example, this happened. Um, there was a girl that he he was dating when we met, and she's an assistant. So he she was his assistant, let's just be honest. He was, and I pretty much took him from her. But so period. Yeah, so she's one of the quote unquote friends that still was like trying to see if we were gonna make it, you know. And years later, a few years later, and he knew how I felt about this girl because she was very aggressive even after we got married. Um, and she came to Innovative Smiles as a temp assistant, and he didn't say anything. I would like, I wrote the checks, even though I didn't work in the practice, I handled all the billing and I wrote all the checks and paid all the bills. And I had to write a check to her. Normally with temps, we go through a temp agency, but I was told, hey, write a check to so-and-so. When I saw the name, I kind of put two and two together, and I'm just like, why couldn't you have just said, you know, she's a major issue in our lives, in my life. And you could have just said, hey, they sent the temp agency sent her. I had to the thing that drives me crazy is that when I find out, like, just say it. It makes it less of a big deal when you just say, hey, she was here. So guess what? The next time the agency sent her, which I'm not gonna get mad at that. He still has to do his freaking job. And if the agency sent random girl that they didn't know that they, you know, were F buddies at one point, they don't know that. Right? Like, I'm not gonna be like Lamell, like just he told me, okay, she's coming back, they're sending her again. Wonderful. He has to still work and make a living. I'm not gonna be mad. I was mad that you kept it a secret. Correct. Does that make sense? Yeah, and that makes sense. You are very similar to Philip in that way where it's like, why not rock the boat? So when you say stuff, I I understand it because he did the same thing.
SPEAKER_07:Right. Totally.
SPEAKER_05:And he would he would always say, Oh, well, it wasn't a big deal. Well, it's if it's not a big deal, then just say it. Right like, oh, I ran into my ex-wife at such and such, because it's you know, the dental community is a small community, especially, you know, when you guys are like at your level. Hey, I I saw this person and I saw that person, I saw that person, but he forgot to say I saw Ellen. Like, why you saw everybody in the mama, but you didn't mention it. But then a few days later, it's like it slips out, and it's like, now you're being now like now. I feel like you're being sneaky. If it's not a big deal, then just say it.
SPEAKER_06:True.
SPEAKER_05:And and then just undo, it's not a big deal. When you keep it a secret, yeah, it's when it feels icky. Then then the woman literally just starts thinking, okay, well, what if he's lying about something so small like this or so basically? Then what is why?
SPEAKER_00:A male wouldn't think that. Yeah, no, but I and we won't always find down.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, no. The way you explain that, it makes sense how much he does, but I get what you're saying. A male wouldn't think that one.
SPEAKER_00:A male would be like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_05:And literally, and that's exactly what he would tell me.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:He literally said, I just didn't want this reaction. Well, you're getting this reaction.
SPEAKER_02:It makes sense if you say that.
SPEAKER_05:I wasn't lying, I just omitted the truth in the same life. When we talk about this, it's because from experience. And this happened until it got out of his system until I kept until we kept finding around about the same thing. And it's just like, just be honest about that. Like in your case, she shouldn't tell you, even if it's true, even if someone came and sat on your lap and gave you a lap dance and you pushed her off your, you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_10:At the end of the song.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:I mean, somebody's got to pay for it and then wait till the end of the song. We're gonna let the though. Come on. Don't give out it.
SPEAKER_05:Hey, those girls were crazy. They were all I I laughed because they were just out of and she shouldn't, and she shouldn't like block you from having a profession, though, because now that that's controlled.
SPEAKER_02:Well, again, this is me assuming, but I don't know. It's me assuming. But ever question then.
SPEAKER_01:If about about the assistant, the assistant.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, no, about yeah, so like about that situation. Now, now that this happened and you had that conversation, which makes sense the way you explained, it makes sense. My question is Um, is it better in a sense, like by you now understanding that, and you've been okay, um, going through the same thing that Lyonette said, and you're now just like complying to it. Right. Is it better? So is it is it better?
SPEAKER_00:You don't you don't really feel like 100%. Okay. Then another situation came up, and we were just walking in the neighborhood, and I say, Hey, yeah, uh went to this such and such, and Helen was there at the Henman Dental Society, and you know, we talked about such and such. She's like, Oh, thank you for telling me that. And that's and that was it. I just I was thinking, and then she got in her car. Right. So she beat her ass into the marketplace. Yes, that was that was Yes, that's why I say men are so simpler, because we're thinking it is what it is, it isn't what it isn't. Women are thinking, well, what else isn't happening? Or what else is he not saying, or what else, you know what I'm saying? So and the guys don't think that way. Yeah, guys are just like, it's this or it's that. Right. And but that's not how women think. Okay, that's good to know.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I'm very passionate about that topic.
SPEAKER_00:That's why she brought it up. Very passionate.
SPEAKER_05:I have more examples.
SPEAKER_00:Don't think that was chat GPT.
SPEAKER_05:No, it's just about I understand the man's point of view because we can be very emotional as women. I get it. And we and not everyone is built like we're not built the same. So I'm sure you can be honest with someone and she will not take it the right way ever. That's between you and her, and you probably pick the wrong one. But the ones that want to grow and mature with your partner and not make everything such a big deal, then it's like, and then I also, if I gave him those instructions, then I can't freak out once he does it. And that makes me look like a stupid ass. Like I told him, just tell me, so I can't get mad when he tells me.
SPEAKER_06:Right.
SPEAKER_05:Um, that's another thing, too. It's like you have to be you have to be mature enough to be like, well, this is what I wanted, and this is what I asked of him, and this is what he's doing. Now I can't like start cussing him out. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and and one of the things I think also in my in my and I guess in my perspective, it's like sometimes when you date, you kind of assume that everybody's gonna react like the person you dated last. Yeah. And you're just trying to avoid a situation. So you're right. You're totally right because some sometimes I'm getting a reaction that I didn't expect when go. So it does become easier in a sense. Yes. So so that's why I asked the question if it was more than getting to know that person.
SPEAKER_00:Because some people maybe not could care less about you know, certain things. But some people that's it that is their deal breaker. That is the thing that they want to be more um, want you to be more honest about. Okay. You know, that's different than vulnerability though. In in a sense, too.
SPEAKER_05:Guys, this has been good considering we had no format.
SPEAKER_00:It is.
SPEAKER_05:But before we leave, before we leave, what do you guys since we're going into 2026, what are your hopes, dreams, goals, desires for this year?
SPEAKER_00:Hopes, dreams, goals, and desires.
SPEAKER_05:Or anything that you look forward to.
SPEAKER_00:I look forward to. I think now in my I think now is more of quality time. I want to spend more quality time with my family. Well quality time with you. Um because with the deaths that we've had, you can't get time back. And when you're about to die, you're not thinking about how much money you made, you're not thinking about what you achieved, you're thinking about, you know, the people you impacted, the lives you touched, and what you left your legacy. So I just think time uh with family, time with friends, time with um with my wife is is this I think that's the most important thing for me right now. That's my focus. It's not about working hard, it's not about grinding. I've I've done that. I think now it's more of hey, when can I have some time? When can I, you know, I'll call Justin up, say, hey, let's let's just chill. It's not a Cowboys game, it's let's just spend some time together. Or, you know, just us watching movies with Corinne watching Die Hart, which is the first time she watched Die Hart, and she loves it.
SPEAKER_04:She's like, that was the best.
SPEAKER_00:I know that's what we did. That's what we were asking. Is this a Christmas movie or is it not a Christmas movie? It's a Christmas movie. It's a Christmas movie. Don't let anybody else tell you any difference. There's nothing else about that. 100% and she loved it. Which I was so shocked.
SPEAKER_04:So just more quality.
SPEAKER_10:Quality time. Yeah, that's funny. We all watched uh Die Hard Tube over for Christmas. Did you really? Oh, that's awesome. We actually watched uh Rec highly recommend uh Marty Supreme. Uh yeah, the new Timothy Chalamet, Tyler the Creator. Yeah, it's I saw the previous thing. It looks pretty good. Beautiful. It's a beautiful film. It's really good. Did y'all go to the movies? Yeah, we went to the movies. Okay. Yeah. Marty Supreme, Christmas Day.
SPEAKER_05:All right, Justin, what do you what do you want for the game?
SPEAKER_10:Let's see. This year. I think what I'm gonna say is I hope for uh new experiences, which I think I've I've I'm ending the this year with new experiences, and I want to continue pushing myself towards new experiences. Um I want to also continue working on myself, uh, you know, being a better, you know, being a better father, um uh you know, doing well at work, you know, trying to trying to find my purpose at work again. Um been in the industry for a long time, so it's really hard, and there's a lot of changes happening in my industry, and it's tough to watch. Um, but um, but I want to be helpful for that. And then relationships for those that don't build your industry. Oh, the television industry, yes. So um, so yeah, there's a lot of people out there uh who are in our industry who haven't had a job in over a year and are really struggling, and uh it's really sad, and they're very, very qualified, amazing people, and there's just nothing out there, and it's just keeps shrinking and shrinking. So it's hard, and um, and it's not a day goes by that I don't think of those people who are still out there struggling. So any opportunity that I can create, maybe um, maybe that's something I work on creating more opportunities, you know, for people I know and love and who are still looking out there looking. Um and then um like relationships, I think I was going. I think I was the last one. Uh huh. I want to improve my relationships. Um I want to make um make make it a a big priority in in in 26. I think it's it's a year um that's gonna be, you know, a good a good year, I think, for anyone, um especially at at my age. I'm definitely going through the midlife crisis thing. So relationships are are very important to me now. And so I want to continue fostering those relationships that bring me lots of joy and and and love and continue to grow those and and then um you know, sharing, you know, sharing anything, you know, that comes from that, I guess. Love it.
SPEAKER_05:Milky.
SPEAKER_02:And um that's a really good one, Justin. And my I I kind of agree with them. I wanna um strengthen my uh the relationships that I have with my friends, my mentors, and and not lose that because once once you're in dental school, you're just like in a different world, and it's just so easy to forget about the the the people and the friends that you not because they're not important, just because you have so much going on, but it was strengthen those relationships and also be just getting through dental school, trying to be the best, trying to like um but the best for myself, the best for my future patients, trying to get better with my skills, um also to strengthen my relationship with um my girlfriend and also strengthen my relationship with God, and I think that would just kind of glue everything together with my family, my mom, and and just kind of be better in time management. But but yeah, that's what it is.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I thank you guys for joining Virago 24-7, and hopefully we can do this yearly, if not quarterly or whenever Milky comes into town.
SPEAKER_09:There you go. That'll be what, spring break? I'll be back I'll be back in spring break. Right.
SPEAKER_05:All right, happy 2026, guys.
SPEAKER_02:Happy new years.
SPEAKER_05:Thank you so much for listening to Virago247. If you haven't done so already, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and please give us five-star ratings. Also, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Virago24 underscore seven and on Facebook at Virago24 slash 7. And just connect with us and share your story. We'd love to hear from you.
