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Virago 24/7
Virago 24/7 is a podcast for women who are done shrinking.
I’m your host, Lyanette Talley—mother, wife, truth-teller, and warrior in progress.
Here is where we unlearn silence, honor our roots, and reclaim our voices.
We talk real life—identity, marriage, motherhood, leadership, and healing—with boldness and truth.
If you’ve ever been told you’re too loud, too much, or too ambitious...
You’re exactly where you need to be.
This is everyday growth. Everyday healing. For everyday warriors.
We’re not shrinking. We’re taking up space.
Virago 24/7
Love Beyond Borders
Jessica's story is a testament to love's transformative power in the face of deeply entrenched cultural barriers. As a South Asian malayalee woman raised in a traditional household where arranged marriages are the norm, falling in love with a Black man meant choosing a path her family had never imagined for her.
When she first told her parents about JP, their response was swift and absolute—they refused to meet him, regardless of his impressive education, career success, and character. The painful conversations that followed tested Jessica's resolve, pushing her to seek therapy with a South Asian counselor who understood the complex cultural dynamics at play. Armed with strategies to maintain boundaries and stay true to herself, Jessica navigated the excruciating tension between honoring her parents and honoring her heart.
This episode explores the courage it takes to challenge generational patterns, the power of maintaining boundaries with love, and how sometimes the path to deeper family connection requires breaking with tradition. Whether you're navigating cultural expectations in your own relationships or simply appreciate stories of transformation and reconciliation, Jessica's journey offers both inspiration and practical wisdom for standing firm in your truth while keeping your heart open to healing.
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Everyday growth, everyday healing with everyday warriors!
Music by Deli Rowe: "Space to Move"
Logo by Kaylin Talley
They say, love knows no color, no border, no caste. But what happens when your heart chooses someone? Your culture says it never could? She's an Indian woman raised in a world of tradition, expectations and unspoken rules. He's a black man, raised to navigate a world where being seen, heard and safe often comes at a cost. Together, they dared to fall in love, but her family. They didn't just disapprove, they drew a line in the sand. Culture, honor, fear, racism All disguised as well. This is what's best for you. Today we're telling their story the pain of being caught between love and loyalty, the boundaries they had to build and the courage it takes to love anyway.
Speaker 1:Hi, I am your host, leonette Talley, and you are listening to Virago 24-7. Virago is Latin for female warrior and 24-7 is for all day, every day. Virago 24-7 is a weekly podcast that brings diverse women together to talk about life and our experiences in this world. We share our views on self-love, mental health, marriage, children, friendships and really anything that needs to be talked about. Here you will find everyday growth, everyday healing, with Everyday Warriors. Just give me my space to move, cause it's my thoughts, what I want, and I want what I want. Hello everyone, I am here with Shiny. Hello, jessica, hello, what's your new last name, jessica? Did you change your last name?
Speaker 3:Not yet. I want to wait till after the honeymoon, which is in November. Okay To Robinson.
Speaker 1:Robinson. Yeah, mrs Robinson, mrs Robinson, robinson, meet the Robinsons. So everyone knows Shiny's voice hello, she's been on here many, many times and Jessica is her first first cousin hello, first cousin.
Speaker 2:She called, she calls me. When she calls her step. What do you call your? You big, my big little yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm your little big sister.
Speaker 2:Little big sister. Yeah, it is, you are.
Speaker 1:So we, we this is round two of trying to record. We try to record the three of us back in December, I think it was, and we were here, it was dark, it was moody and we were talking for like 40 minutes or so and the power went out. It was really crazy, the power went out and it erased the whole show.
Speaker 2:So anyways, and we were sad about it. But the exciting thing I want to mention is that you know we all have lists of what we want to do in our lives or dreams, and bucket lists and exciting things we want to get into. And one of hers was recording a podcast. So I was so excited when Leonette was like definitely yes, and because she was moving off to California, so she's back on from you know, like a little vacay to Atlanta for the weekend. And we got so lucky to have this opportunity this afternoon, this beautiful Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the reason I wanted her on is this is a story about culture and race and racism and just deep-rooted traditions, and yeah, so let's start from the beginning. Jessica, tell us a little bit about yourself, and I don't know if you want to start from meeting him or talking about your family dynamics.
Speaker 3:So yeah, so let's see. So I guess the story I'm about to tell is about my current relationship. I am a South Asian, malayalee Indian girl. If you know anything about South Asian parents and families, it's a very strict upbringing. But basically I'm trying to think where I want to start. I've met someone while I was doing my clinicals out in Georgia and we were friends for about a year and then we decided to date. I am, like I said, malayali Indian and he is black, and I'm just going to talk about the whirlwinds that I went through in that situation and deterring and figuring out my relationship with my family while creating a new family.
Speaker 1:Well, like when I first met Jessica I met her a few years ago and how old are you? 30. 30. So you were like mid-20s, I think when I met you. And one of the things that stood out when I told Shiny I was like she is just so mature for her age and so self-aware and emotionally intelligent. And so when you started dating him and you started telling me a little bit about your parents pretty much not being happy for you, I think that's an understatement and the way you were handling it was so wonderful, was so wonderful. So let's talk about, yes, you met him, he's black and like your emotions behind it, knowing. Did you know that your parents were not going to be happy for this union?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think initially from the beginning. I think that's why I also remained friends with him for such a long period of time. And then, once we got into a relationship, I remember speaking to him and I was like hey, I just want to let you know like this is not going to go well with my parents, it's going to be an argument, it's going to be just not something easy. So if you want to go, the door is open. I'd rather just not be hurt later and just be hurt earlier. If you don't want to deal with that and he's like I'm not leaving you, You're not going anywhere, I'm not going anywhere.
Speaker 1:So that's so cute.
Speaker 2:And I think that that's very, you know, noble to say, hey, we can be a lot, and culturally it's. This is not going to be an easy road to go down. So you're giving him a fair warning, like you know, and I I think that that's something that is, you know, valid, because it isn't easy and I think now we're in a time in our lives where we see a lot of mixed couples. But how we grew up and what we were told, our parents are very intentional to keep us within a small bubble. You know, a safe space they feel safe is a safe space.
Speaker 1:So question about that. So what is it with the culture that I mean? I don't I'm trying to be respectful of the culture, but it's discrimination or racism. What causes that? Like, what is it within your guys' tradition that evokes that? Is it just black or is it white or is it, you know, other cultures? Like, how does what's the mindset behind that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think there's degrees. So it's like, you know, white people, those white people, that's all right, spanish, all right, we're getting darker, they're, they're OK, but they're like really pushing it. You marry someone black or date someone black, it's like they think you're the devil, you know. And I think it's because it's deep rooted racism. Right, we're racist even towards each other, like South Indians versus North Indians, and I'm sure it's getting better over time, but it's just we're racist towards each other, Like, so you know, to expect it outwardly, it's, it's normal per se, but I just think it's um just deep rooted in security.
Speaker 2:It's something that they don't know. You know, our parents came to the U? S and we said this last night even they only have, they don't have any non-Indian close friends in their circle. They, you know, we go to an all Indian church and we put all the kids at kind of the same schools and we don't do play dates and sleepovers and and if we hang out with anyone they're other Indian people.
Speaker 2:So, uh, whenever I try to start telling my story or to try to describe myself, it's, it's super close, even trying, you know, non Indian food until I became an adult, I mean, it's a very like our food, our tradition, our clothing, our like traditions, it's, it's, it's all you know. So you, you feel safe in that space and that's how they feel. So I think we got the differences They've, they're raising us over here, so we're integrating with all different races and people and there can be more likelihood of you becoming friends with non-Indian people, regardless of the race, because you'll, we're just more open, we're here. So, um and I and I Jessica, I want, I was thinking, maybe describe why our parents have these, cause they don't obviously, they don't know, so they're just looking out for us, but why? Why, culturally, that they have these like okay it's, it's maybe acceptable to white, but the colorism is is a big thing.
Speaker 3:Colorism is a a big thing, but I think that it's also like a cultural barrier. It's a language barrier. They don't know how to interact with anyone that's not their own culture, um, and I think that freaks them out like they don't know how to interact with this other person, so it's just easier for them to just stay in their own bubble.
Speaker 1:When did you decide you were in? You friend zoned him. When did you decide that you were going to start dating and were you going to tell your parents? Did you keep it a secret? What did you do?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So like when we were friends for the year, I think I just wanted to get to know him because I was unsure. And then I remember at one point I was just like you know, like we're really good friends, like let's just try it out. And he was living at Georgia at the time and I was doing travel out in California. I was like I just want to even see if he'll book the ticket to come cross country to see me. Like that's a commitment in itself. And I was like hey. And I was like hey.
Speaker 3:And I remember initially I was like what are you doing for New Year's? He's like, oh, I don't know yet. I'll get back with you because it's a really busy time for where he works. I was like okay, but like I think like the next day I already planned something with my friend because I was like you're taking too long, like you should have been like yeah, let's do something. And I remember I ended up telling him the next day, once he got his clearance of what he wanted to do, and he was like, yeah, like I think we can do it. I was like oh, like I'm sorry, I kind of already made plans with my friends. He was like, oh OK. And I was like but I'm going to have this break and I think that you should come to California, let's hang out and just see how we are, and that's kind of like where it started.
Speaker 3:And then, so my initial thought was we weren't going to date.
Speaker 3:But it ended up happening because I really realized I liked him and I told him because at the end of that trip we're like okay, like should we be together, and I was like I'll let you know once you leave.
Speaker 3:I want to see how I feel, because it's all lust and happiness when you're all there, but it's like when that person leaves, do you miss them or do you feel like you go back to your regular life. And I, like I remember it was hours after he left and I was like I think I'm ready, like I think I want to be with this person. And, um, you know, then it's like, oh crap, like how do I tell my parents this? And for me, I was going to keep it a secret for as long as I could. You know, the longer I wait, the better it would be for me in my mind at that time, because I was just used to hiding things you know. Being an adult, it was just easier to hide and ask for forgiveness rather than just to be upfront, and can just feel a lot of chaos with Indian parents.
Speaker 1:So how long did you date him before you before you decided okay?
Speaker 3:this is getting really serious and my parents have to know yeah, so we started dating at the end of december 2022 and I remember we were like looking at rings, I think, like four months in, um, and I decided to. After my contract was done in California, I decided to move to Georgia, so he had a home, so I moved into his home. Um, what was the question? Okay, wait wait, let's back.
Speaker 1:Let's backtrack to moving into the home. I didn't know you lived with him. Oh, yeah, oh, and how? Okay? What did you tell your parents? I told them who you were living with. That's what I want to know.
Speaker 3:So like fortunately, my parents kind of let me do my own thing when I was doing travel, so they didn't really come visit me. I would always just go visit home. So I just said like hey, I'm doing a travel contract out in Georgia. I did not have a job lined up. I totally was like I'm going to move in with him and I had no idea what I was moving into either. Like I had no idea what the condition of his house would be Like I had I booked a one-way ticket, having no idea what the heck I would run into. Fortunately he was clean and the house was like in one piece and not a trap house or something, but yeah.
Speaker 1:So then you moved in with him, and how long, this is okay, that part I didn't know. So how long did you live with him before you decide that your parents need to?
Speaker 3:know. Yeah, so actually this is kind of like a two-part story. Well, first of all, we lived for I think it was like six months together before he got promoted to go out to California. So we were living together probably for like four to five months, if that. And then he moves. I was living in the house alone, um, I decided I needed so.
Speaker 3:Initially I was going to tell my parents I don't remember the time, um, but I tried to tell them initially at first, cause I went to go see them. I was like I have to go tell them. And I remember I called my parents the day before. I was like hey, like I am going to bring someone down south because I'm coming to visit. And they were like OK, great, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, yeah, like he is not Indian. And they were like, ok, what is he? And I was like he's black. And they were like don't bring him them, like do not bring them, you need to come alone on that flight and come back home.
Speaker 3:And I remember I was just crying the whole time because I was like it just sucks when your parents don't support you and stuff. And I remember that trip and I remember it was only two days. It was the worst trip of my life. My parents like cornered me in the room and they were like hey, like we don't think this is right for you. They had me on like Indian dating sites and there was like so much interest in you and think about this guy and that guy. I'm like I, I don't want it. I remember in that moment I couldn't fight my parents. I was like I'll break up with him Cause it would just let them off my back for a little bit.
Speaker 1:And I went back to Georgia knowing that was like not my intention them off my back for a little bit and I went back to Georgia knowing that was like not my intention. You know that makes me so, so sad. I remember you saying, when you were telling me about about that dynamic, that on paper he's like perfect. And if you would have just showed your parents like this is the guy I'm dating, they would have been like, oh my gosh, yes, he's perfect. But then you put the race on it. That is so deflating that you are judging someone not even about like. As soon as you said color, they're like yeah, don't bring them. And without knowing nothing about him. That just it blows my mind. And there's I mean there's so many families like that that you're not even giving the person a chance.
Speaker 1:There's a girl that that I know and we were just talking about that. She just started dating. She's from one of the islands and it's so funny how we're all different shades of brown but for some reason, the blacker you are, the worse it is. So this girl is brown too, but she started dating a guy who's black and they just saw a picture of him and her parents are saying the same thing. It's so weird. I'm like we're not white people, we're not white, but just a shade darker, just just, and I don't know if it's the skin color, probably is, but the culture and the misconception of American black men, that stereotype that is put on them, and it really I think that's what drives a lot of these, these fears and these cultures. So you're not the only one. I mean, I just literally had this conversation with someone. I'm just like are you a parent? I'm like your skin is pretty dark, like it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3:It's definitely both. I think, the the lighter, like if you were like a light-skinned black person looking our color lighter, I think you're gonna have an easier time, but the darker you are, you know, if you're like a con, yeah, you're gonna have a challenging time well, I asked you that.
Speaker 1:I was like well, who do you normally date? She's like mixed guys and her parents are okay, if you're, you know, throw a little white in there with the black, just you know, swirl it up, swirl up the colors and that's okay, that's. I was like damn that's, that's crazy to me, that's crazy. So okay. So he moves to California. You're living in the house by yourself. They say do not, do not bring him. They corner you. Obviously you didn't break up with him. What happens next?
Speaker 3:So I remember at that point I was like, okay, I need another game plan, like this is not going to work. So I'm like and JP was very supportive I was like, hey, this is how it went. And he like honestly laughed when he was like, oh, like you're on dating sites and whatnot, he just thought it was hilarious because, like he knew that we weren't going anywhere. And I remember I was like, okay, I have to go about this in a different way. So I put myself in therapy because it was really, really challenging and I remember I specifically wanted a South Asian therapist because they understand the stuff that we go through. So I went through like pretty extensive therapy. Like every week I was talking to her, seeing her, and I want to say she was extremely helpful in the situation. And the second time when I told my parents cause it went way, way differently the second time, and the second time how it went is, I remember, I was alone in the house.
Speaker 2:The only reason I want to interrupt you is when you said he knew we weren't going anywhere. What do you mean? You mean you two as a couple aren't going anywhere and you're solid, or you mean you guys aren't going anywhere. Future what did you mean? Can you expand?
Speaker 3:That we're not breaking up. We're staying together like he's here to stay.
Speaker 1:So he wasn't threatened by the.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I want it. That's important.
Speaker 3:I mean, not every person can handle, you know it's a lot, it's heavy, yeah, and I remember I would tell people like not all the details, but I remember like some guys I spoke to they'd be like, oh, like I'd be out of there, and personally I think I I might've been out of there too, because it like, if you don't like me and you're never going to like me, what is my fighting chance? You know, like I'm Brown, I can't do anything about that, but I didn't. He was like super emotional, like emotional, great regulation, and he realized, hey, like they're from a different country, and I think he just knew, like he has such a great personality that eventually he would win them over.
Speaker 1:So what? What did the therapist like? Because before that you were not in therapy. No, so what was it in therapy? What did she teach you Like? What did you learn so that the second time you approached your parents it was?
Speaker 3:different. It's time to stand up to your parents, because it's not very common Nowadays. It's different, but to stand up to your parents and be like this is your life, this is your decision. You have to live your life and do it exactly how you want. And you know it took hours and hours of therapy to go through each and little thing, but basically come to that and I remember I told her I was like hey, like I want to tell her within these two weeks, cause my best friend is coming into town and I just knew I couldn't like do it alone.
Speaker 3:I was going to do it on the phone and she was like write a script. Like write a script on a piece of paper. Go by that. Um, I remember on the top, like in the title, I wrote like stay calm, stay cool, stay like collected, because, like like, as soon as you lose your composure, like they will too.
Speaker 2:And then they have you. So I want to say this, add this is what you did is a really big deal, and I understand that. But I'm not sure, like our audience may not understand, how grave this is for us, because it sounds bizarre, but we are raised that we don't have control, because you were saying that. The therapist said this is your life, this is. You know, you control your life, who you spend it with, what you do, but that is not what we are taught life, who you spend it with, what you do, but that is not what we are taught. We are and I'm, you know, this is my, my, my little sister, cousin, like we're. We're a big age difference and I, I would say, because I'm older too, it's more ingrained in me that I have no choices. So I guess, when I just want to quickly say that from from, from birth, our parents depending on the parent, but Indian parents typically that we were where we're from, and I don't want to say like everybody's all the same, but from where we're from, our parents had full control where we go to school, how we dress, who we spend our time with, what we study when we become an adult, what we do extracurricular wise, who we get to hang out with. It's very, very controlled. And then they also add in they choose who we marry. And then they also add in they choose who we marry. So I wanted to add that, because that is why you chose to go to therapy, then have your best friend come, because this was a really big decision. And these are your parents and our parents aren't trying to be like against us and and they truly believe in their heart and their mind that they have our best interests at uh in mind and that they know better than us. And they also believe that marrying someone of your own race which I understand they get it. You know, it's the same culture, same language, same everything. So they think that that's what our lives will be easier. And then I'll add in that definitely Indian stat wise.
Speaker 2:Arranged marriages have an extremely high success rate because it's based on socioeconomic status and not love and lust and similar education, religion, background, and they do like a family. It's like they do a family biopsy on you know what's everything that if, if, if they're a match. So, based on that, you have less chance of arguing over money or uh, you know family vacations or you know things that you have in common. So they really, truly believe and they also think like other cultures. Don't stay married and don't work for it. There's so many. That's what I say I wanted to. I want her to add that too, because this was a big deal. I am really proud of how she handled it like extremely proud and very mature. But what she did is really hard, because our parents do not take that lightly. They think you've done the worst thing ever, because how could, how dare you choose your partner?
Speaker 1:So quick question before we move on to Jessica. So, going back to it's so interesting.
Speaker 2:I want our audience to know, like you know why why this was important to record that is interesting.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go off track a little bit because that fascinates me about the arranged marriage and that culture and that there's no divorce. But is it because they're happy together or they are concerned about the appearance of leaving the marriage, what the community would say? So is it that we're happily arranged or we're just kind of stuck in this and we don't have a choice?
Speaker 3:I think the statistic of like, oh, arranged marriages stay together, it's only because they're forced to stay together, they can't leave, so obviously it's higher. But I mean, there are arranged marriages that really worked and they really love each other, but the majority of the time they just kind of like stay and they kind of tolerate each other.
Speaker 1:Were you any of your parents arrange marriages?
Speaker 2:or yeah, both, both, both, both yeah, I was a majority of our, like in our I mean because we're from two different generations, but pretty much, yeah, that's, it's the norm, you know, it's it is, it's what they know and you know, and and they don't divert from that.
Speaker 1:And I know we're. I know we're not talking about you, Shani, but I know yours wasn't arranged, but, like you said earlier, you all stay within the same community, so that's the pool that you have to pick from right, absolutely yes.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and in my case, yeah, it was. It was as if it was ordained by you know, from from the beginning. You know, I was the same circle of friends and same church and same language and same everything. So, yes, it's it's kind of chosen, you know, and it's super encouraged. So it's it's, it's what I knew, it's all I knew. So I know that.
Speaker 2:For you know, and I know, jessica, cause we her and I talked about this last night we, we are, we are parent pleasers who become people pleasers and that is what we do. We grow up learning that we need to have good grades, we need to have good education. We are very driven, like I hear that all the time from non-Indian people is like, wow, you guys are so driven. Or like my like for my kids, example, right, cause I'm second generation and my kids anyone who knows my kids are like super driven and it's it's, it's it's what in nurture nature. It's definitely it's 100% influenced by my parents. It's got to be I. The only difference I made is I gave my kids a lot of choices, like expose them to way more things than I ever was, because I, I didn't have a choice. I studied dance and I studied piano, piano, and I'm not allowed to do outdoor sports, so we'll talk about that another day. But yeah, that's how we've always been.
Speaker 1:So, like in your culture, like honor your father and your mother is like the first commandment.
Speaker 3:Honestly, might as be number one, yeah yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So back to jessica. So your friend is coming into town. Are your parents coming into town too? You said no, so you're calling them on the phone.
Speaker 3:I'm calling them on the phone to tell them because I remember speaking to my therapist. I'm like should I speak about it in person or should I do it through the phone? She's like I think you should do it through the phone and then go in person because it's going to be the same thing, you just have to realize. And to me, when she said that, I was like the same thing. I feel like it's worse. I have to meet them in person to have to like you know. And she's like no, it's going to be the same thing. And I was like, okay, well, sure, and I also want to tell you, my therapist also married outside of a race and I didn't know too much about her because she didn't disclose a lot. But she was like, yeah, I went through stuff hiding as well. And I was like, okay, and it feels nice to have somebody that kind of understands your struggle in that way. So that worked out really well. But I remember, yeah.
Speaker 3:So the second time I told them through the phone, I remember exactly where I was sitting. I was on the sofa and I had my paper and my best friend was sitting to the right of me like looking at me holding the phone, I think. Actually I was like can you please call them, because I don't think I can do it, and I remember. So I called and I was like my mom picked up and she was like hey, like how are you? I'm like, oh, like I'm good. Is dad there? Because I want to talk to you guys? And she was like no, he's not, he's like doing something. And I was like, ok, can you guys call me back once you guys are together? And she was like OK, is like everything OK? I'm like I had some time, which kind of feels like forever, and then she called back again, or I called her again because it was taking a long time. I was like where's my dad? And I was like hey, like did he come back? And she's like no, he's not back yet. Like are you okay? Is everything okay? I was like yes, but I need to speak to you guys tonight because I think my best friend was leaving the next day, so I needed to get it done while she was there. And she was like okay, like I'll tell him to come home. And I think my mom knew something was going down. So I remember I got them both on the phone. I told them I was like hey, like I'm with this person, this is who I want to be with, like this is it? And we're going to be together and eventually get married. I didn't say that we like loved each other. I think it was like too much. But I told them, like you know, with the intention of getting married, you know you love each other. So I remember their immediate reaction was it was quiet, like I don't think they knew what to say and I think they were just like they said okay, in the moment. And I think I just told them everything.
Speaker 3:I read off the script, you know, basically making my decision, and then I think it was actually kind of a short conversation and then we got off the phone and then the phone calls started coming afterwards where my mom started screaming. The phone calls started coming afterwards where my mom started screaming. My mom was like how could you do this to us? You know you told us that you were going to break up. Like what's going on? How is this going to look to? Like people in the church? And my dad was like you know, if we let you marry him, like what are people you're going to set an example for all the girls in our church to marry out. And I was like what does that have to do with me? Um, and I remember like I had to keep my composure the whole time but all I wanted to do was yell.
Speaker 3:And obviously, like it got to a point where we were talking in circles and she told me my therapist is like when it gets to that point, you have to be like hey, you know, I'm going to hang up the phone. We're talking in circles. There's no point in the conversation. Hang up and we'll talk another day. And I remember like I said that on the phone and I hung up and I was like I'll talk to you tomorrow. And they kept blowing up my phone. I kept looking and I was like I feel horrible, but I have to say my word. I have to stay true to it. I remember my mom was like I have to stay true to it. I remember my mom was like why aren't you picking up? She texted me. She was like why aren't you picking up the phone? I was like I'll talk to you tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Good for you. Yeah, good for you, because that guilt trip that you were on, that's insane and making you the spokesperson for the church and you're badly influenced these young girls how dare you, jessica, I know. So did you talk to them the next day, or did you?
Speaker 3:We talked and I remember it was really abrasive. We didn't have that much of a relationship. Like I remember I changed the ringtone of my mom's ringtone, so I knew that she was calling and I remember because JP would be around me. That's ringtone. So I knew that she was calling and I remember cause JP would be around me. That's my um husband, um, and he spoiler alert Um, he would just be like, just just pick it up, like are you okay? I'm like I, I just want to keep it short, like I don't want to argue, just pick it up, like, are you okay? I'm like I just want to keep it short, like I don't want to argue, you know, and I remember my mental health took a decline too, like I would get migraines, I would get headaches, and it's like I had to realize like I'm probably going to lose my family over this Is it worth it.
Speaker 1:And what did you come up with? Like were you willing to lose your family over this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was so worth it. Really yeah, like, even if it's sad to say, if I had to lose my family over it, it'd be worth it for me because he's everything I've wanted.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that. May I ask how exactly? Just to have more detail, how exactly did you describe him to, like, you know, our parents, like our, because our parents, you know they really care about the outside right Of how, like my mom always, like when my mom described somebody like someone got married. They don't even have a name. It's like the doctor married the lawyer you know. So yeah, I'm curious. Like, how did you describe him on the phone?
Speaker 3:yes, I remember I was telling him I was like you know, he's been to graduate school. He went to UF. My mom went to UF, which, if you know about UF, it's considered the yellow Florida um, very great school and um, I was telling him that he has a great job. He, like you know, is like this young, great guy no kids, that's a plus Just like this incredible person who treats me very well and I can think the biggest thing is like what are their credentials? Like, what are their academics? And he met those. So I remember saying all these great is like what are their credentials Like, what are their academics? And he met those.
Speaker 3:So I remember saying all these great things like he doesn't drink. And I remember my mom like doesn't drink at all. So I thought that would be a great point to bring up. But the fact that he was black, trumped that Doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, has never smoked cigarettes or, you know, cannabis, and she just like didn't care, did not care. She would try to convince me in every phone call and I would be like, no, like this is my decision, like I've made my decision.
Speaker 2:You can respect it or you can just move along you know, and I if correct me if I'm wrong but didn't your parents come back and say something like it's okay if you marry an Indian guy and he's not as educated and is not as successful as your man right now? Yeah, I thought that was interesting. Yeah, so that just showed that it was race above everything, right?
Speaker 3:Am I right that they said something like that, yeah, but above everything, right, am I right that they said something like that? Yeah, I think this is kind of initially in the beginning, they were, like it's okay, if you like, find an Indian guy that doesn't make as much as you. And if you know anything about me, I want to get taken care of. I want to, like, I want to be a stay at home mom. I want, like, a soft life. You know, like I am a physical therapist. It can get really crazy in therapy where there's a lot of burnout, and JP knows this and we actually created a plan of, like how to retire in a certain amount of time and he's very OK with me being at home and taking care of the home. And I remember I was like if I had to trade that in for an Indian guy that like forces me to work and like, no, thank you, like facts and and you're not like attracted to him.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's just because you're from the same culture like bump that just like no thanks, and I think for a long time.
Speaker 3:Because I've seen like my friends date indian guys. I was never really interested in brown guys. Um, I just I would always hear their stories about them doing it wrong and like I can't, you can't put indian men at all in one category, like that's not fair. But I just never really was attracted to them. I never like felt that way about them. So I always dated outside of my culture and liked it.
Speaker 1:So I love how she said and liked it yeah, all right. When did your parents come around? Because obviously you spoil. We went to the end so we know you're married. Are they a part of your life? Yeah, did they come to the wedding? Are they supportive, like what is happening now?
Speaker 3:yeah, so it was really funny about. It wasn't last year, it was the year before. It was July 4th weekend. I remember JP and I we were in Vegas and I remember my mom called me while we were in Vegas and I'm like I try to avoid her phone calls when I'm with him Cause like it's like I have to say certain things, I don't want him to hear certain things. And my mom just called and she was like hey, like you know, I've been thinking also before this prior. My best friend was there. Like I said when I told them, and my mom and my best friend.
Speaker 3:They are close and I remember my mom ended up calling my best friend after I told about my relationship and my best friend pretty much advocated for me. She was like do you want to lose your daughter over this? And I remember my mom sat there really quiet and she was like no, like I don't. You know, that's not the life that I want. She's my only daughter and I think she thought about it. She called me that weekend. She was like hey, I just want to let you know like I want you to be happy. And I was like is this my mom.
Speaker 2:I have to say so. Sujamama, her mom is my favorite aunt. I mean, I know I don't have a bunch of them, but she really is. I think probably everybody's because she's just so, so loving, like that's where Jessica gets it from, I mean, like she's so, so, like incredibly loving, like you see her heart miles away. So when Jessica told me that her mom reacted like her mom, I felt like her dad would come around first, just because you know he calls her in our language like sweetheart, you know my dad would come around if my mom came around.
Speaker 2:And just how mature. I mean. I know she's really educated and really smart. But just because you're educated doesn't mean you have that emotional, like intelligence, right. And when she was telling me everything that her mom said, like even now my eyes get watery Like that's true love is accepting, you know, accepting us as we are. You know unconditional love. I don't think everybody has it, even parents. Even parents don't have unconditional love for their own kids, like if you have it in your life. It's rare, you know, have it for somebody or having someone have that for you.
Speaker 3:So when she told me that it's so beautiful, and don't get me wrong, like my mom totally like gaslit me and would be like I didn't sleep last night. I haven't been sleeping, my dad hasn't been sleeping, you know like. So before we got to this great point, like they were gaslighting me and telling me all these things and the phone calls were miserable. I would hate seeing them. I was like.
Speaker 2:Leonette, can you explain to us what gaslighting is?
Speaker 3:Yes, please.
Speaker 1:I mean I can, I can, I can Google it.
Speaker 2:Someone is kind of lighting a fire on you, meaning they're questioning you or being like. If you say, it really hurts my feelings that you didn't hold my hand, and someone responds what's the big deal?
Speaker 1:What's your problem? It's like when they turn it around back on you, Exactly Like you're making their lives miserable. And what about what you did to me? It's like you get the reaction, but then their reaction is because of your reaction. It's just a vicious cycle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and it's, and it's, and it can cause the person who is trying to seek help or tell you know, say their feelings like make them feel guilty about it.
Speaker 1:Well, I think also, when you're being gaslit, you start feeling like you're crazy, like you're cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, like wait, was I in that same situation, because that's not how I saw it? And now I'm feeling crazy because maybe I misunderstood what was happening. You feel crazy, yeah, and so they were just gaslighting you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I remember, like you know, you stay strong on the phone, but you get off the phone and you're like you know what is what I'm doing right? Am I truly hurting this person? And it's like, yeah, I am. But it's like when am I going to live my life, you know, and I thought about I was like okay, if I let them win and I break up with JP is his name, and I have to start all over Like is that the life I want to live, giving them their happiness, like they're going to pass off and do their own thing and they're married and happy. And like, what about?
Speaker 2:me.
Speaker 3:So I knew in that moment I was like no, like I'm not going to do that what about me?
Speaker 1:so I knew in that moment I was like no, like I'm not gonna do that. So when she finally came around during that conversation, was she really meaning it, or she just said it for that moment, or did she stick with it? And then, when did they meet JP?
Speaker 3:I think that she meant it when she called me, which I think my my eyes started watering and I thought it was dreaming. Um, she was like you know, I want you to be happy. I've been thinking about it, um, and we should meet him. And I was like, um, I don't even like, I don't think I had words. I was like, uh, and like I'm having tears going down my eye. Jp is like in the room not knowing what's going on, like I'm in the bathroom taking it secretly. And I was like um, okay, um, yeah, uh, let me call you later. I remember I told JP and JP was like, yeah, that's great. I'm like you don't know what this means. Like this is a huge milestone.
Speaker 1:I love. I love how chilly is about he's like about it. He's like, yeah, you know he's not, he didn't sound intimidated by it. Or your parents are racist. I never want to meet them Like. He sounds like he's just taking it like so chill, which speaks volumes, because you can really you know, if you're that person, that it's like they don't even know me and why they treated me this way, or or, you know, betray me this way, and most people would probably be angry by that and, and you know, be bitter. But for him just be like, yeah, sure, let's meet.
Speaker 3:That's, that's really cute actually, and I think I have to say prior to this, um, I remember telling so shiny is my cousin. Shiny was the first one to ever know about JP. But I end up telling my other cousin in California, who I'm also very close to, about my situation, and his parents are my aunt and uncle are super progressive. I don't know what it is about Florida, but Florida Malayali people are like not as progressive as people in California and New York and Texas. But he was like do you want me to tell my dad about you and JP? Like maybe they can abdicate and his dad could talk to his brother, which is my dad. And I was like I don't know, roshan, like they're pretty upset, but okay, let's try it out.
Speaker 3:So I remember like I had a conversation with my uncle and my uncle like literally asked for his like bio data, which is basically your resume, cause that's how Indian dating goes. And he was like I remember we had the call and he was like he sounds like a really great guy and he actually ended up Googling him prior to like he looked him up on LinkedIn and everything. He's like he just sounds like a really great overall guy and the thing about JP is. He's very involved. He's very involved in the black community too. He was like a mentor and a leader at UF and he was like he sounds great. We just have to make sure to talk to your parents about it and I think it all worked out because I think they were going to go see my parents like two weeks later, so they ended up meeting, had a conversation with my parents and my parents were not having it.
Speaker 1:Really so after that conversation that you had with your mom, they still weren't having it. This is before, oh, prior, okay.
Speaker 3:So let's say this is May, so even the own family members.
Speaker 3:This is your dad's brother, Brother they were not having it who he highly regards, and he tried to advocate for me Brother, they were not having it who he like highly regards, and you know he tried to advocate for me. But like my parents were not budging, they're like we're not happy. This is not what we pictured for our life, for our daughter. So like we don't want to come around to it, like I don't really care what he has, his accolades or whatever, like this is, it's just not fair to them. Wow. And I remember, because I remember calling him afterwards, I'm like how'd it go? Like you know, like did it go well? And he was like, yeah, like they they're really upset, they're not ready to receive it. So it made it was like a dagger to my heart because I'm like, if they don't want to accept it coming from like his brother, who they absolutely love, I don't know if there's like a future for me.
Speaker 1:So so then your mom said we're ready to meet him.
Speaker 3:Yep, and JP was like, let's do it yeah, um, and it's really funny because I was working in Georgia and he was working in California at the time. He ended up getting a flight that was way earlier than mine. So my dad picked JP up from the airport and had like a full day with him prior to me even getting there. And oh my gosh that nuts. I was so impressed, yeah and when I tell you, I was at work crapping my pants and jp was just chill about it, chill about it he's like oh, it's gonna go fine.
Speaker 3:I remember texting during work. I'm like how's it going? What's going on, like, are they being nice? And then he's like, yeah, we just went to ihop together. We like um, I didn't find out till later, but he like asked for, like, even though we were engaged yet no, not yet. He asked for, like my dad's, you know like asking for permission to marry, his blessing, his blessing yeah, okay, he's confident.
Speaker 2:I love that about him. He's really confident. I know it's so great Like that is such an amazing hot quality Right for a guy you know A confident man, confident man is hot.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, it's one reason I love Phillip so much. Yes, his sexy voice and his confidence. Okay, so then you come into town. Okay, first of all, before we have you come in, would they be rude, like even if they felt a certain kind of way? Would they even be rude in person? Or would they be on their best behavior, even if they feel a certain kind of way?
Speaker 3:I don't think that they would be rude. I think they would just be like just behavior, even if they feel a certain kind of way. I don't think that they would be rude I think they would just be like just don't have them come because you know. But no, I don't think so. And I think they wanted to be open. And then I remember like so they had breakfast at ihop and then I think jp was like hey, like you know, I want to marry your daughter. I've never been to jail, I don't have kids.
Speaker 1:Like any questions you want to ask, like go ahead and ask sorry, my blacklist is not going to go away, but everything else is wonderful, like I'm like yeah, top tier.
Speaker 3:Basically, um, like, what are your concerns that you have with me? Um, and I think my dad like really received that and loved that about him. And then I remember like, yeah, I was texting him, texting him like, so, like what's going on? He's like, yeah, like we're actually going to Costco together to like get tires. I'm like you're doing what?
Speaker 2:Okay, Jessica's family. They are Costco lovers like hardcore, like probably every single person that works at Costco and just shops there knows her parents. So that's a big deal. I'm going to take you to my Costco, yeah.
Speaker 3:Show. So that's a big deal. I'm gonna take you to my Costco, yeah, show you off to my people, right? But yeah, they like had a great time. Um, you know, I got there later that night and it was awesome. Like I don't know what happened, but I it's. I owe it to God because it's the only reason of how it happened. You know, I think I remember during that, like what was so challenging for me and those four months. It took four months, only four months, but those four months felt like four years and I would just keep my faith with God every single time, like I know that you're going to like deliver, and like I think God was like all right, you've like proven it and like here you go, so like yeah, yeah, I was only God, because that's the only reason, that's the way yeah and so then, after that, we're happy family yeah.
Speaker 3:So then you know, initially it was so funny because we're like, okay, like we're gonna elope because, like my parents don't, um, you know, like accept us. And then my mom was like, no, like you're our only daughter, we're gonna have a wedding. I was like, oh, she's like, so we planned a wedding in eight months, which is very short, if you know, in wedding terms, there's generally a year, um, but yeah, we planned a wedding in eight months. It was awesome. It was a huge black and brown Indian wedding and our families just meld together so well, really, yeah.
Speaker 1:Because you just got married, june of this year.
Speaker 3:So like less. It's been two months.
Speaker 1:And so the families get along.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they do, and I was very nervous about it because I was like, okay, like it's kind of weird, but like their family is so open to us and our family has been so open and I think we've embraced that. Actually, our moms have called each other, so I think that's so crazy checking up on each other.
Speaker 1:I love that you bring God into it, because everything in my life when you look back, it's like when people ask, well, how did that? I'm like God has his hand in things and only God can turn a heart around, which is it gives you goosebumps. If you think about it, if you have that faith, it's really cool to see God change people's hearts.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think God brought me into this world to break these generational curses. Like he is, like I remember I was like God. Why did you choose me to be the warrior? I?
Speaker 1:don't want to be the warrior anymore.
Speaker 3:It's exhausting being the warrior. Yeah, it is. He brought me through it and out of it and I'm so grateful and you're happily.
Speaker 1:You're happily married, you're. You're excited that you made that choice, yes, and your future is so bright. I love it. I love it, and when those grandbabies come, they'll just forget. They'll forget all of it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm excited for you and just watching your journey is it's so, it's so inspiring, because it's I. I think it's so cool when young people break that and they don't even realize it, like I think, going through it. Obviously it was painful for you, but from the outside, looking in, it's like this young girl who grew up in this culture has the cojones to just go on her own, and how difficult that is. It's. I think it's pretty cool. It's really cool.
Speaker 2:I feel, uh, so inspired by her and I have learned so much this experience because that's and I'm much older I have lived my entire life, um, trying to please my parents and our community and too scared to actually live my life the way I wanted to. So when I see that Jessica stood up for herself, and and rightfully so, there wasn't anything malicious about it at all. She just wanted to choose who she wanted in her life, and that is, you know, people don't recognize that your life partner is the biggest choice you can ever make, and to have no control over that and just go in so whimsically like it's nothing and just go in so whimsically like it's nothing it's. I think that that's what people me included but we don't know, you know, we don't know and I do want to say, um, my relationship with my parents has been.
Speaker 3:I remember I prayed for it too. I was like because my friend Quay in PT school. She was so close to her mom and I was like I wish I can be friend quay in pt school. She was so close to her mom and I was like I wish I can be close to my mom and I actually prayed to god about it. I was like, hey, god, like it's me again. Um, you know, I really want to build a close relationship with my mom. I want that relationship. And god was like, okay, you pass through and like we're closer than ever. Like me and my parents, we get on the phone and they know everything. Now, like they know my whereabouts. Before I'd be like, oh yeah, I'm here, but I would really be somewhere else and like, yeah, they know everything.
Speaker 1:I, I absolutely love that for you. Like, absolutely love that for you. I'm, I'm, I'm thankful that you're sharing your story, because I know, being friends with Shini for so long, that, like, this kind of stuff is top secret and you don't talk about it and you got to keep it in house, and so, for I know, for some people it's like what's the big deal? But when you grow up so sheltered and like I see it, I get it, even though I didn't really grow up in that environment it's pretty cool to see the outcome. Yeah, yeah, this is a big deal, guys. This is a really, really big deal. So I thank you for sharing, because that's a big deal too. And, shiny, even though you're learning this later in life, you should be proud of you and your accomplishments and you, finally, are living your best life and living your truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I think it's you know I, you know I always feel like there are energies, can influence. You know a room right. But and and I felt like her energy of her standing on her own, knowing what she wanted, knowing that this is a good man who treats me well, I deserve to be treated well and putting that trust in her parents, that they can trust her Like I think that that's another thing that we said confidence, right, confidence is mutual too. Like we give to our kids, we were confident in them, we trust them, and it goes back and forth. So, like that's a big conversation I've been having with my teenagers is you know, I trust you. I need you to trust me back too. You know it works both ways. So I think that had a lot to do with it too, because Jessica is a really loving, kind kid to her parents and I think they had to trust her that she picked a good person, a good hearted person, because ultimately, that's what a parent should want.
Speaker 1:And I mean this whole story has so many lessons.
Speaker 1:It to me feels like boundaries do work and if you stick to your guns, no matter what the other side is saying, it all works out.
Speaker 1:Whether they were going to be in your life or not, your life was going to be okay, and I think a lot of our decision-making is always in fear of what others are going to think. And when you take back your life, so boundaries not being gaslit, you staying calm and not giving in to that whirlwind because as humans, we can get caught up in that drama and, like when you were saying having that conversation, it was going around in circles, some of us will just go around in circles with them. When you learn to just come out of that, that whirlwind and just let that person just go around in circles by themselves, that's a huge lesson. And just owning owning your convictions and just allowing God to just work it out. And if they were not meant to be in your life for the rest of your life, that's between them and the Lord and you are going to be with the man you love, which is, yeah, really cool.
Speaker 3:I want to say, um, I'm not like this judging. You know, like shiny always says I'm super confident, I am not this like super confident all the time time type of person. Right, Confidence is a muscle. The more that you practice it, the better it becomes, the stronger it gets. And I have to actively have days where I'm like I am not confident on certain days, sometimes as a therapist, sometimes as a person, but it's like something you just have to realize in your mind. It's like you have to actively be like no, I am, and I am this person and no one can do it better than me, and you have to believe in yourself. So, yeah, and then I also really feel like, at the end of this, all trust in God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thank you again. This is a big deal to share stories, especially when you grow up in a culture where everything needs to be kept private. And I thank you, shiny, and I thank you Jessica, and I'm glad that round two worked out for us.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm so happy that we got together and that Jessica was able to share her story with you, leonette, and our wonderful community that is so supportive of women taking back our power, in a way, because we are powerful and you're right. I see the confidence in you because that's also what I want to see. You know, I think it's beautiful and I mean she, like I said, she's my little cousin sister that I look up to. I mean she is taller than me but you know I look up to. She's inspired me in so many ways and I can't wait to share that with you soon. All right, thank you, ladies Love you lots Good luck.
Speaker 1:Thank you, ladies, love you lots. Good luck and have a safe trip back to California. Thank you. All right, jessica Bye, sharni Bye Bye. Thank you so much for listening to Virago 24-7. If you haven't done so already, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and please give us five star ratings. Also, don't forget to follow us on Instagram, at Virago247, and on Facebook, at Virago247. And just connect with us and share your story. We'd love to hear from you.
