Beyond the Vows Part 2

Facing unseen challenges in a relationship can feel like navigating a ship through a foggy night, unsure of what's ahead. Join us as we chart the waters of spiritual blindness in marriage, where hidden forces threaten the bond between partners. Together, we discuss the power of vigilance and prayer in guarding our unions and share personal stories that shine a light on the struggles we face internally—those battles that test both our human insecurities and our higher aspirations.

Embarking on the journey of financial unity as a couple is like climbing a mountain—you need the right tools and a shared vision to reach the summit. In this discussion, we bear all about transforming from impulsive spenders to prudent savers, and the rocky path we navigated to get there. We examine how life lessons and mentors, like the wisdom from Dave Ramsey, have become our map to fiscal responsibility. It's an honest look at the importance of budgeting, investing, and the profound impact financial transparency has had on solidifying our partnership and future.

Marriage is more than a societal convention; it's a canvas for growth, an adventure in shared commitment, and sometimes, a complex equation involving blended families and step-parenting. We explore the profound purposes of these sacred bonds, question the status quo, and celebrate the resilience of love when faced with life's trials. Through our heart-to-heart, we touch upon the sobering lessons from my first marriage, the role of therapy and self-reflection in fostering healthy relationships, and the undeniable significance of communication in feeling truly seen and heard by our partners. Join us for a candid conversation that's as much about the resilience of the human spirit as it is about the love that binds us.

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Everyday growth, everyday healing with everyday warriors!

Music by Deli Rowe: "Space to Move"
Logo by Kaylin Talley

Chapters

• 0:00 Spiritual Blindness in Marriage and Finances
• 12:18 Managing Finances Together for Personal Growth
• 22:23 Purpose and Growth in Marriage
• 26:03 Purpose and Challenges in Marriage
• 38:01 Recognizing Married Singles Warning Signs
• 43:54 The Realities of Divorce and Relationships
• 57:38 Therapy and Self-Reflection in Marriage
• 1:04:07 Navigating Love and Communication in Relationships

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

last week on Virago 24-7. How does spiritual blindness play a part in marriage problems and divorce? What is spiritual blindness, and can a Christian become spiritually blind? So what is that it's about?

Speaker 2 0:14

spiritual warfare.

Speaker 1 0:19

Hi, I am your host, leigh Lyanette Talley, and you are listening to Virago 24-7. Virago is Latin for female warrior and 24-7 is for all day, every day. Virago 24-7 is a weekly podcast that brings diverse women together to talk about life and our experiences in this world. We share our views on self-love, mental health, marriage, children, friendships and really anything that needs to be talked about. Here you will find everyday growth, everyday healing with everyday warriors.

Speaker 2 1:01

Spiritual blindness is thinking that there is no warfare going on spiritually. You're thinking that what's happening with you is about that person and you're almost thinking that the devil has no play in this whole process, no part in this whole process. So there's a spiritual battle going on all the time and one of the main things the devil feels threatened about is a godly marriage. He doesn't want that. So anything he can do and say and whisper to that your spouse to make sure that that marriage doesn't work or grow, he's going to do. And if you don't see that, you're blind to the fact that spiritual warfare is happening and it is attacking and fighting your marriage daily. And if you're not intentional or prayerful about what you're doing, like Robert mentioned, he said when he goes to bed at night the thing that he starts to do is pray that the Holy Spirit or God is protecting your thoughts at night, because that's the, he feels, one of the main ways and when the devil will start attacking you.

Speaker 2 2:37

In your sleep In your sleep.

Speaker 1 2:39

I believe it. What my insecurity is? You stepping out on the marriage right, and what do I dream about at night?

Speaker 2 2:48

That I've cheated on you.

Speaker 1 2:49

Oh my gosh, and I mentioned it to people, yeah.

Speaker 2 2:53

Mad at me. I'm like like I actually cheated on you. I say which, for the record people I have not, but OK good, that's good to know Every night, not every night.

Speaker 1 3:03

Not every night, every few months.

Speaker 2 3:06

The next night, the next morning, you're like the next day. I can't believe you did that to me.

Speaker 1 3:12

I'm, like you, cheated on me and I'm like what.

Speaker 1 3:15

And you're, and in every single dream you're so nonchalant, like, yeah, I'm doing it, I love you, I take care of you. So like you're so nonchalant and so, matter of fact, you're not apologetic at all, and so it's just like what the hell, felipe, what the hell? And it is an insecurity of mine, and I used to think, oh my gosh, it's a sign. It's a sign and my sleep is a message. I got to be on high alert. It's the devil. And for the longest time I say that's a sign that I got to pay attention. But then I realize it's my subconscious Just letting me know that I'm insecure Special blindness, that's what.

Speaker 1 4:01

I'm saying but you had one, and that was your first one when I cheated on you.

Speaker 2 4:08

I've had a couple oh, that's, that's, and I've never had that dream and that was recent too. I think it was like last year. It was the first time I ever, ever, ever, ever had a dream that you cheated on me.

Speaker 1 4:20

Yeah, oh, the couple, the couple that you have, it's more. You cheated on me in your dreams Because you said you've had a couple.

Speaker 2 4:27

No, no, no, I've had a couple since then. Oh, since then that you've cheated on me.

Speaker 1 4:33

Oh, you didn't tell me. I thought it was that one time.

Speaker 2 4:36

No.

Speaker 1 4:37

Oh.

Speaker 2 4:37

I've had a couple of those. It's like two or three. I have told you.

Speaker 1 4:40

The tables have turned everybody. I have told you.

Speaker 2 4:42

So yeah, and I've never had that dream in the 18 years of our marriage, until last year. Well, damn, but again that's the devil.

Speaker 1 4:50

What's in your subconscious, Felipe.

Speaker 2 4:51

Just under my subconscious. Oh, it's the devil, it's the devil.

Speaker 1 4:54

So that's what spiritual blindness is. It's just not understanding.

Speaker 2 4:59

Or not aware, and you don't see that there is spiritual battle happening or there's spiritual warfare happening in life and you're thinking oh, I can do this alone, it's just me.

Speaker 2 5:09

Or I'm making these decisions, people, you know things are whispering in your ear, things that you hear. Is this my decision, is this the devil's decision? And not realizing that that's a thing, you're blind to the fact that this is happening. And Christians can definitely be spiritually blind, because Christians, I mean that's kind of mystical. Yeah, you know, that's just kind of this voodoo that there's spiritual warfare, you know. But I mean, if you believe in miracles, you've got to believe in spiritual warfare. If you believe in angels, there's things that happen that you can't see. No, I mean, you believe in oxygen. You breathe it every day.

Speaker 1 5:50

I mean, I know we're talking about marriage, but just in general, as a human being that's lately, in the past few years, when I've grown into my faith and stuff. That's where I get emotional is because I know there's this battle within. I know what my humanness wants to do and I know what the right thing to do is, and when I get upset or sad, it's this conflict of my human side wants to just blow shit up.

Speaker 1 6:20

But, then my spiritual side is like OK, let's be kind. And then I get very pissed because I was like that's all I want to do. I don't want to be the bigger person, and so I'm like fighting with myself. So I don't think that ever goes away, even when you are aware.

Speaker 2 6:36

No.

Speaker 1 6:37

And so I've learned to go through.

Speaker 2 6:38

Because if you think that it's not, you're not aware of it.

Speaker 1 6:42

Imagine when you're not aware. Yeah, I become more aware of why I'm feeling. Ok, why do I feel this way? It's because I'm conflicted of. I want to be this way, say this, say it like this, but I know that's not the right way of doing it, so all right. So we talked about communication being one of the biggest conflicts in the marriage. And then we also hear money and finances. We hear that's huge, right up there of where there's conflict. How does a couple get on the same page?

Speaker 2 7:12

This is so funny. This is the one time I'm actually going to bring up a name and a question and a thing with the men's group, because the Virago people know him. Yeah.

Speaker 2 7:24

So McQuaidus, AKA Milky I'm not going to call the grown man Milky brought up the fact that he said man, I don't want to have to share my finances with someone Because you don't want everyone, they're mine. And he asked the question in men's group what is that bad? And I was like, yes, yes, that's about trust, that's being selfish and if you have the right person, you're okay with that.

Speaker 1 7:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2 8:01

You know, because that's what we do. So he wants to keep it separate. Well, he hasn't. I mean he's been single, I mean for 30-something years. So his thing is like I can't even imagine letting someone know how to make. Well, yeah, but you're not there yet Sharing the money yeah. He hasn't gotten you to that point. And that person was like how is?

Speaker 1 8:21

that with you? Obviously, because when I was 25 years old I wasn't bringing the big money yet the big box. So you were the provider, you were the one. That was very established. How the hell did you come into this marriage with me and be secure in that? Or were you even secure? You were just acting like you were. What was the process for you?

Speaker 2 8:53

That's why I say and I said this to McQuaidish when he came over the other night when he told me he had got accepted to dental school, which is amazing, we're so happy for him.

Speaker 1 9:03

So happy Congratulations to him. There you go. The only reason we're so excited is because it's been a journey for him to get accepted to dental school.

Speaker 3 9:11

That's amazing, so we're excited. Well, he has to move away, which is sad, but we're going to keep in contact.

Speaker 1 9:17

He's a part of us for life 100%. So, um, I was going to say no, I was trying to come out Talking about how and the hell did you trust me to come in and you were okay with that, or?

Speaker 2 9:35

was it really strategic about it? So I got to McQuaidish is the thing with that. You were my soulmate. I knew you were my soulmate. I had no qualms about that. You're the one. You're the person for me. You were my person. You were my rider.

Speaker 1 9:59

You're like I don't want to die, Okay, but but I'll ride.

Speaker 2 10:02

There you go.

Speaker 1 10:03

You're right If it's a nice smooth ride and I'll tell you how to go in that ride, like where to turn.

Speaker 2 10:10

Yeah, so if you're, you have both hands on the side. Well, so for me I had no problem with that, it didn't matter.

Speaker 1 10:20

Yeah, I made most of the money, but you made all the money, philip.

Speaker 2 10:25

I had like a like pocket change but it was ours and I walked in with that perception and I was okay with that. I've always been okay with that. But I think if you have the right person, you are going to be okay with that, no matter what happens, no matter what what they bring into it, it has to be.

Speaker 1 10:48

Did you ever feel impasse relationships? Because you know, obviously you, you, you have a more like experience. Thank you. I like to think you didn't have any experience before me. However, you had more experience, more, more relationships. Did you ever have anyone that you felt uncomfortable when it came to money? Money. And I know marriage is different than just having a girlfriend.

Speaker 2 11:14

but no, I didn't trust anybody else.

Speaker 1 11:17

Okay.

Speaker 2 11:18

With money, but my money, uh-huh, no one.

Speaker 1 11:22

How was it in your first marriage when?

Speaker 2 11:24

it came to money. That's a good question. Um, I don't think that was. That was the one thing that wasn't our problem.

Speaker 1 11:31

I know, but did you guys combine things, or was everything very separate and that's why it worked, or how did you guys do that?

Speaker 2 11:37

It's the same way we do it. We combine big things, but we both had our own personal.

Speaker 1 11:43

Well, I mean, she's a baller, you you. You guys were beginning like to ball, you guys.

Managing Finances Together for Personal Growth

Speaker 2 11:48

Yeah, she was a specialist and yeah, so that was an issue. Yeah, she made more than me actually, so, but that wasn't the issue. But with any, yeah, everybody else, no, I never trusted anybody with my money. I was very, very, very selfish when it came to that. So, yeah, so I didn't have any issue walking into our relationship and trusting that. But, yeah, that's a huge problem. Well, that's the other thing. People don't talk about finances.

Speaker 1 12:20

Yeah.

Speaker 2 12:21

People don't talk about how they handle their money, because some people are spenders yeah. Some people are savers.

Speaker 1 12:29

I'm a spender by nature. Yes, hi, I'm Lyanette Talley, I'm a spender, but but I think I'm a kind of a recovering.

Speaker 2 12:37

You are a recovering spender. You are, and because you handle our budget now I do, and we wouldn't be in Tybee Island right now.

Speaker 1 12:46

Oh, don't say that no.

Speaker 2 12:47

If you were still a spender, oh stop. But it's true though.

Speaker 1 12:51

I think. I think no, don't give me all the accolades it was a group effort. However, I never was taught any of that. Most of us are never taught about money but I do remember in the very beginning, you were very adamant about me being transparent about my finances and, yes, what I made back then definitely wasn't the same as you and my debt wasn't maybe as big, but for me it was big. So I literally had to like bring it out on the table. We sat at the dining room table.

Speaker 1 13:24

You're very transparent I brought everything that I owed like student loans. I think I only had like one or two credit cards, but they weren't a lot, but for me they were. But now that I think, yeah, versus my income, but I remember you being very just like just laid out on the table. Don't be embarrassed, we're going to figure this out together.

Speaker 2 13:46

Take care of all your debt and then we worked on yours.

Speaker 1 13:50

I feel like, when it comes to money, we've been on the same page 100%. But we've had to be very transparent and I remember being highly embarrassed and then when you saw, you're like I don't know if you said it, but I could tell you like, okay, this is not so bad, yeah, not so bad for you because you make money, but for me it's like this is a big deal.

Speaker 1 14:11

Yeah, you're like you're kind of like, okay, that's not so bad, cause it wasn't bad in the grand scheme of things, but this is the cool thing about it.

Speaker 2 14:18

It wasn't like I said all right, this is your debt, let me pay this off. No, we strategically said all right, based on what you're making, let's start knocking out these different things.

Speaker 1 14:30

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 14:33

And we didn't just I didn't just write a check and cleared your debt. It was more of like hey, let's just start paying it down.

Speaker 1 14:40

That would have been nice. That would have been real nice. He made me pay off my debt and then I could be a stay at home. I don't remember how it happened.

Speaker 2 14:51

That was the process.

Speaker 1 14:52

Yeah, it's like you will pay off. You will work at a crappy job and be miserable, pay off your debt and then you can stay home. No, it wasn't that way but it was good. Yes, yes, you're very smart about that.

Speaker 2 15:06

Yes, yeah, yes, and again. You know, we were never taught that.

Speaker 1 15:11

No.

Speaker 2 15:12

We didn't get that in school. I didn't get that from my parents. I mean, mama was a spendard, daddy was a, he was cheap and his money said frugal, and I never learned that.

Speaker 2 15:26

I mean, I guess I got it from different people. No, I definitely learned a lot again. I have to go back to this again and I don't want to make my other siblings feel funny about it. I mean, carolyn really taught me a lot when it came to money. And and then my roommate in the Navy, jeff Jeff Stack, his name he taught me a lot when it came to stocks and mutual funds and things I never learned, ever, ever, ever, ever. And that's something I definitely, definitely want to pass down to our kids when it comes to money and finances.

Speaker 1 16:07

And together, while we've been married, we've taken courses, we've done the day. Ramsey, yes, we didn't follow it to a T, we didn't. However, he he laid the groundwork of, like you know, paying off debt and staying out of debt and paying things in cash. And it's been hard and it was longer than you know. We didn't attack everything like head on, but it's worked. For us it worked really well for us.

Speaker 1 16:33

It's also been very transparent and even though I'm a spender by nature, I feel like it was a responsibility for me that one you're like here, you handle the finances and you make sure things get paid and you know how much I make. And I never wanted to be that woman or wife that was in the dark, that had no clue because of shit hits the fan whether it's divorce or illness or passing away it's all very realistic things. I never wanted it to be. I never wanted to be a person that was in the dark like shit. I don't know passwords, I don't know where anything is, I don't know how much he makes.

Speaker 2 17:10

Yeah. I know nothing, and this is the thing you got now and I never wanted that. And someone was asking me this the other day and I was like you know what. I don't know what I pay for. I don't even know how much I make. You know what I make.

Speaker 1 17:26

I'll let you know. Yeah, we'll go over it together later. I have no clue what I make. You make a good living from it no. That's why we were able to buy this condo Right, but I'm so lazy when it comes to that.

Speaker 2 17:40

Now I think I'm at the other extreme, you are. I have no clue. I'm the kept man. No, I have no clue. What's going on? We got into it.

Speaker 1 17:52

We got into it the other day because we bought this condo, right, and we're talking about vacations and you know, we like to travel, people, we like to travel. And so this year we're like, okay, we're going to be frugal. And you're like, well, let's go here and let's go there. I'm like, do you not understand? You just literally told me we can't go anywhere, but you want to do these things. Do you know how much that costs fill up? And you're like, no, why would I know this? I'm like, and then I'm like, well, you should know this. Why am I the only one that understands that this is not going to be realistic? And so, like, we really got into it and then we had a similar.

Speaker 2 18:26

And we were at a restaurant, we were out and about, we had a wine bar and I said nice wine bar.

Speaker 1 18:31

You better sit down. The economic is seen. I said you're like I'm done with this. I said, listen, you're like you're shooting down my ideas. I'm not trying to fill up, I'm not trying to shoot your, your ideas down. However you're come, you're contradicting yourself. You're saying that you want to save money, but yet you're saying you want to go to this place and this place and this place and that's not really saving money. That's really spending more money and I think you think it's cheap in your mind, but it really is not, because I know that how much we've paid for these places. And you're like. Why would I know that?

Speaker 1 19:03

I'm like but why do I?

Speaker 1 19:04

So it was this whole thing.

Speaker 1 19:06

So even what that was like three months ago, that was very recent, where I appreciate that you have let me drive the train because it may, it makes me feel confident and I feel and going back to what I was going to say before I felt like it was a responsibility to be more responsible of that.

Speaker 1 19:26

And we still spend and I still like to buy more things because everyone jokes with me where I'm like, yeah, Valentine's Day and I don't care about gifts. I don't care about gifts because I buy my stuff when I want to buy them or you buy them for me, and so I don't need these special quote unquote holidays for these things to come. And it's not like a bragging thing, it's just that that's what we do, but we do it within reason and responsible and I take it's a huge weight for me to spend within reason and I never wanted to abuse that, because I know that there are some men out there that make a lot of money and want to hold control of that. And our, you know, because it comes, I don't know.

Speaker 1 20:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2 20:13

So I do appreciate that. I do appreciate that, yeah, and I think that's what I'm saying, because his wife was. He made her be very frugal in spending and didn't realize that they were rich.

Speaker 1 20:25

Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 20:26

Because the whole time he was had her thinking they were poor and he really was. And a lot of guys are that way and I agree with that. A lot of guys are more like hey, I paid the bills, I take care of this, I make most of the money, I'll give you a little bit to do whatever you want with it. And you have no clue. And you hear that all the time when the guy passes away and the wife is like I don't know, no idea what's going on, I don't know what debt we have, I don't know I'm, you know.

Speaker 1 20:56

So the next question is about being content. This is huge, okay, and I think in some couples, one or both spouses are not content. What do you think the causes of this discontentment is like in marriages? What is it?

Speaker 2 21:13

Quality time. You think so? Quality time, quality time, quality time.

Speaker 1 21:19

No matter what your love language is, but if it's just give me, shower me with gifts. I think most women deep down and men want quality time.

Speaker 2 21:30

Yes, I agree with that, but I think if you don't spend the time with your spouse and that can mean so many different things it could be vacations, it could be showering them with gifts, going on a weekend that's not my love language, by the way, spending all this stuff for them and that's not your love language.

Speaker 1 21:55

I just like quality time for sure, which I love the fact that that's not your, but I do like a good gift every now and then. That's true, my purr-boring, that you bought me a few hours ago.

Speaker 2 22:03

Yes, yes, so I think that is you're not content. Is that what it was? Not content?

Speaker 1 22:12

Not content, yeah, because what are the causes of that?

Speaker 2 22:15

Your needs are not being met. That's why. Yeah. Your needs are not being met, so you're not content with.

Speaker 1 22:23

I think a lot of the time people get married and in the beginning they feel like, okay, this person is adequate enough to marry, you know, and they get married because maybe it's the season in their life where they feel like they have to.

Speaker 2 22:40

And they check the boxes and they don't really like.

Speaker 1 22:45

That's the main For me. When it comes to marriage, yeah, there's a lot of shit that comes up, but in the end, do you like that person? Are you guys growing in the same trajectory? You and I were joking because we were driving and our taste buds have evolved even in the same way.

Speaker 2 23:08

True.

Speaker 1 23:09

Where.

Speaker 2 23:11

We select the sweetest coffee.

Speaker 1 23:14

Or the sweetest drinks. And now it's evolved into it needs to be a little bit stronger and needs to be a little Even coffee, more espresso.

Speaker 2 23:22

And a wine palette is a must.

Speaker 1 23:25

And that's just kind of like a very superficial thing, but are you guys growing together?

Speaker 1 23:34

Do you still like each other? And I really, truly feel, if we took a poll of most people, did they really like that person? Yeah, they're okay. I think people just wanted to get married, to get married, and they're not really vetting this person. It's just like this is the next step. We've been together, we've got to go. I don't want to waste my time with this person. We've been together for three years, so the next logical thing is to move forward with marriage and they're not really thinking about that. This is really not my person. I really feel like if people, when they think back, they know that that was not my person, that I went through it anyways.

Speaker 2 24:21

You have a lot of people that, think that way. All right, and you also have the other percentage to lean on that and I think that's probably the majority.

Speaker 1 24:27

They get divorced. I think it is.

Speaker 2 24:29

Yes, that's the majority that get divorced, but you also have the other percentage that they did like that person.

Speaker 1 24:36

Okay, and what?

Speaker 2 24:37

happened At the beginning.

Speaker 1 24:38

Okay.

Speaker 2 24:40

But they didn't put in the time, they didn't put in the work to get the results and they weren't intentional about dating each other. Okay, let's say that and then they didn't like each other anymore. Yeah.

Speaker 1 24:54

It started off positive in a positive way, and that was the reason why they married that person.

Speaker 2 25:00

That is that other percentage. But you can grow out of like with people, just like you can grow out of love with someone. And if you don't like put in time with them, what's the-? You have friends that you like, but you don't like spend time with them. You're not intentional with them and you know what. They're not your friends anymore. Yeah, and it's just that simple. Some people obviously there's events that happen over time that maybe divide or break up a friendship, but sometimes it's like you just grow away from me.

Purpose and Challenges in Marriage

Speaker 1 25:35

So I've been listening to. So I listened to a morning show here in Atlanta. It's syndicated, so it's not just Atlanta anymore the Burt Show, the Burt Show. And also I listened to podcasts. And so the question that they keep asking is what is the point of getting married? Like back in the day there was a reason for it. Like women had to get married. They didn't have the careers of their own, they would go to college not really to get an education, but to find a husband. It was strategic. Nowadays, what is the purpose of getting married for a man and for a woman? What is the purpose?

Speaker 2 26:13

That's a good question for me and I have to say I'm very traditional For me. I think you can't go on with life by yourself and I think you're better together than better separate. And yeah, you can be together with someone, not be married with them, but you can easily, easily, easily walk away from that.

Speaker 1 26:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:45

If we were never married, if we never made a vow to each other in front of people 18 years ago, coming up on 19 years ago in September, we would not be together right now, Cause it was so easily.

Speaker 1 27:02

Why are you trying to get rid of me so many years ago? Cause that would have been so easy.

Speaker 2 27:07

Just to be like I'm out To leave, yeah, which is one of the things that Robert brought up in the men's group was if everything in your marriage financially is separate, that's easier to split, then it's easier to split because you have no conflict financially to go.

Speaker 2 27:29

Yeah, if they all have a joint account and everything has always been separate. That's just that, that easy way to just say you know what I'm done, I'm out of here. Yeah, and if you never married that person and you all are together you've been together for years, never truly got married, any problem that comes up, you can just walk away and be done.

Speaker 1 27:56

There's a lot of people out there that can say that have been together for a long time Without the marriage. True, that would argue that.

Speaker 2 28:08

Yeah, but that's such a small percentage.

Speaker 1 28:09

That's rare. You think it's rare. That's such a small percentage.

Speaker 2 28:11

It's an exception to everything. Yeah, it's an exception to every room Areas.

Speaker 1 28:16

So you think it's a smaller percentage than this? I?

Speaker 2 28:17

think it's a very small percentage, but I think that's not how God made us to be separate, to be individuals to a point in which we don't need someone else. You can't, someone doesn't make you happy, but the right person, I feel, makes you better, and I feel like my life is so much better in having you in it as a husband and wife than we just roommates and we have some kids together.

Speaker 1 29:03

Yeah, that would be really weird for me specifically To have kids and not be married. It's just, I mean, I've been there, it was weird, I've already been there, done that and it was not fine.

Speaker 2 29:18

You experienced that side.

Speaker 1 29:19

Yeah, it's not good. It's not good at all. Actually, it doesn't feel right in your spirit and I don't give a shiza or shit what people think that. Oh no, it works. You're in denial. I think a lot of people are in denial if they think, oh, that works for you. I don't know.

Speaker 2 29:34

Quick question for you. Yes. This came up in my mind right now yeah, how would you feel if I had kids?

Speaker 1 29:43

Prior to us. Well, I think we've talked about that. It would have been hard. I think it would have been hard. I've never been a stepmom, so I feel this is what I feel because I love you so much, like truly love you. I would love that child and accept them as one of mine. I feel that in my heart. I think when I was younger I'd be like, oh yeah, no way, that would be too hard. I don't know, because I haven't been a stepchild and I've seen a blended family and everyone does the best that they can with what is given to them or what they've chosen for themselves. But I just adore you and I just think that you would have such a cool little kid even if it wasn't for me. That I think now, as a 44 year old woman and we've been married for 18 years it would be.

Speaker 1 30:46

we would bring it all together, I think in my 20s.

Speaker 2 30:50

At this point.

Speaker 1 30:50

yeah, yeah, my 20s. You should have asked me this question in my 20s. Yeah, it would have been. I think at that time we did talk about stuff like that. We did.

Speaker 1 30:59

And I said, you are a better person to be the stepdad than me, right? Because I'm very raw and it's so raw for me and maybe because of my experience of not always feeling accepted, whether it's true or not. Everybody out there, everyone has their version of the story. For me, I didn't always feel 100% accepted by my step-parent Not truly. Appearances are different than what is happening inside a home and how that person is making you feel, and that's another story for another time. But maybe from that experience I probably would have been more hyper aware if you had a child Right and been more on this path of like I gotta make this work.

Speaker 2 31:49

Because it didn't work for me. Yeah Right, I was just curious about it?

Speaker 1 31:53

I don't know. I know we talked about it in the question. It would have been hard.

Speaker 2 31:55

But I was just curious when you were bringing it up. Do you know how that would have played itself out? It would have been hard.

Speaker 1 32:03

I'm not gonna lie Right, I don't wanna be like it would have been easy peasy. I don't think it would have. Okay, I think it would be props on marrying me with a child. I give you, I give you big props for that Cause. That's hard. I think it's harder than most people want to admit.

Speaker 2 32:21

Yeah, that's true and I think you asked that question in our men's group. But in our men's panel.

Speaker 1 32:26

I think it's harder than people would want to admit to it.

Speaker 2 32:29

Cause everyone wants to be like. You have to be real. I'm the best. You have to be trans, I'm the best. It's not an easy situation, yeah, but it yeah. I think for me it was easier when Kalen's father, to be truly honest, was nonexistent.

Speaker 1 32:51

Before that it was a lot harder.

Speaker 2 32:54

Well, he was always nonexistent. Well. I mean he was nonexistent, I mean he really wasn't. Even when he was there, he wasn't there. Okay, he was a cool uncle.

Speaker 1 33:03

Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 33:04

But if he was someone that was, I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 33:08

I do admire. I know there's families out there that really blend. Well, yes, but just the exception. But I think maybe like how, how we talk about our marriage, like in quote unquote, easy for some people.

Speaker 2 33:22

They have worked through some things.

Speaker 1 33:23

There's some things that they had to work through, but they were mature enough to work through it, and so now it looks like oh, wow, I can never do. But I think, I think there's some people that have that secret sauce for blending families for sure 100%, yeah, 100%. All right. Okay, let's talk about sex, baby. Let's talk about you and me, all right. This is one of the questions on this little agenda here Sex Is it often a problem in marriages, and why? What is the solution? Communication Okay whatever, I go back to communication.

Speaker 2 34:03

Because you do want to know what pleases your spouse and you need to be very transparent of what that is. And yeah, I mean that's a huge thing when it comes to any relationship. Is sex? How good is it? Cause if it's good, it makes it better, the relationship better to some degree. And you know, obviously some people would just be booty calls and you know booty calls that are awesome. And in your marriage. No, I'm talking about relationships.

Speaker 1 34:34

Oh, just in general In relationships oh.

Speaker 2 34:35

I got you In relationships, but when it's awesome in a marriage, mm-hmm, oh my goodness.

Speaker 1 34:43

I don't know, phillip. You tell me, since you've had a lot of booty calls, is there a difference?

Speaker 2 34:48

Damn. No, you didn't just do that, hey, so there's a huge difference for a guy, okay, there's a difference Is?

Speaker 1 34:55

there, Cause we look at women, look at guys and I'm like mm, sex is just sex for you guys.

Speaker 2 35:01

You guys. You know why, though, you guys, when we were broke down my theory Okay, break it down. No sex, yeah For a guy and a girl, uh-huh. Very few women and you've heard me say this before can just say that sex is a booty call.

Speaker 1 35:21

Okay.

Speaker 2 35:23

Very few women.

Speaker 1 35:24

Oh, like a woman can't say, oh, he's my booty call, there's some kind of attachment. I got you. Oh, it's an attachment, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's some kind of attachment.

Speaker 2 35:30

It's not like a guy doesn't have an attachment. But if you have to say, hey, which person's going to be more attached when they have sex? It's going to be a woman. But if you really, really, really break it down and being very transparent when you have sex with someone, right, yeah, the woman is the most vulnerable person in that process.

Speaker 1 35:55

Yeah, so why are you guys abuse that shit? That's what. That's my question, phillip, yeah, cause we all know that. Yeah, we all do that. Cause, that's not what we're thinking about Cause you're selfish, but we're not thinking about that. You're being selfish cause you've got your needs.

Speaker 2 36:10

You're just thinking about the moment, yeah, but now you may be very unselfish in that process, but it's about just the moment and what's happening at that time. You're not even thinking about the repercussions, what's attached to it, the emotions involved, because most men, unless you're with like that person, like you and I, are it doesn't matter who you at. Mm-hmm. It really doesn't.

Speaker 1 36:46

Damn Daniel.

Speaker 2 36:49

But that's messed up, but that's being real. Mm-hmm. So sex is so important in a marriage and that you need to communicate in a marriage what's best for you, what works for you, and that's an unresolved conflict. Mm-hmm. If y'all don't discuss that because you can't have, I don't feel you can have a marriage without sex. No. I mean, you can have it.

Speaker 1 37:19

But it's not fun, right? It's a shitty marriage and it needs to be good.

Speaker 2 37:23

It needs to be good sex. So how can you make a good sex? By having that discussion, you know, by having that conversation and being open and transparent and intentional. So, yeah, that's very important.

Recognizing Married Singles Warning Signs

Speaker 1 37:38

Yeah, yeah blows my mind when people are like, yeah, we've had sex in two times in a year. I'm like what? Like how did that happen? That sounds crazy. I don't know, I don't get it. I'm glad we don't have that Moving on, Moving on. Okay, you guys talked about married singles. Did you guys talk about that?

Speaker 2 38:06

Married singles.

Speaker 1 38:06

Like you're married but you're single.

Speaker 2 38:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1 38:11

Like. What are the warning signs that a couple may be in danger of becoming quote unquote married singles? Like you're married but you're acting single. What does that mean?

Speaker 2 38:22

It goes back to some of the things we already talked about, which we'll go through this really quickly. One you're very selfish, because when you're single you're selfish, you only think about yourself. So when you're married, single you're just like, hey, you do you, I do me, we good, we have this marriage, but I'm gonna do what pleases me, you do what pleases you. Have separate accounts, we take care of things and in the end we come together and we're great. That's not lasting. That's not something that's conducive to a healthy relationship, do you?

Speaker 1 39:00

feel based if you're okay with me bringing this up based on how you have described your first marriage. Now, you're not knocking her cause. You guys seem to have remained friends for a very long time, even after you and I were married. You guys stayed in contact, so it's not dogging her or anything like that. But the way you have described the marriage is that you didn't have a lot in common, so you did lead separate lives. The only thing that brought you guys together was maybe going to nice restaurants and dinner, but like what you liked and what you found like was fun to do in your leisurely time was not what she liked, and vice versa.

Speaker 2 39:38

We were married singles. Yeah, yes, 100%. Can you relate to that? I can relate to that 100%. It's funny that you say that, because when I was just talking just a few minutes ago, I forgot that I was a married single. Yeah, you were, and my first wife.

Speaker 1 39:53

That's why I'm bringing it up. I'm here to remind you of the hard hitting facts and truths of your life. Philippe, you're like I don't know what that means married, single.

Speaker 2 40:04

I'm like well let me give you let me tell you what that means in definition.

Speaker 1 40:07

But I lived it. You lived it.

Speaker 2 40:10

Thank you for bringing me back to reality. Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 40:13

So, yes, we were. I mean, financially we were great, we had a great time, we looked good. But yeah, we were married, singles because we lived separate lives. During the week, she did her thing, I did my thing. On Fridays and Saturdays we went to restaurants. That was our thing. We love going out, we love having dinner, nice places, experiencing different types of food. We didn't discriminate on what we ate and stuff like that, but we lived separate lives. So, yeah, we were married, but we were more like roommates, more than anything, and that's not sustainable. I guess if you wanted to, you could sustain that and people do that in reality. But yeah, that's kind of like you just do your thing, I do my thing, we come together or we just keep up appearances, and that's I think a lot of Christians do that. They just keep up appearances at church and in the community, because it would look bad if we were to get divorced and people think, oh, what's going on with the Smiths and those people?

Speaker 2 41:29

Yeah, the Joneses, the Joneses and the Tallys and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 41:32

So the Tallys are marvelous, so yeah.

Speaker 2 41:37

But yeah, definitely a lot of people do that. They're single but they're married.

Speaker 1 41:42

That sounds sad. Were you sad?

Speaker 2 41:45

At the time I didn't think I was.

Speaker 1 41:46

Oh, okay, when you're going through it, you're just going through it, because you know you're single, so you get to do your own thing. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 41:53

And it's like you got the best of both worlds. Mm-hmm, I mean, that's what it sounds like. That's what it sounds like In theory. It sounds amazing because I can still be single and I can still be married, but that's not how God made us and it doesn't feel right, it doesn't work and how?

Speaker 1 42:11

Because you said you didn't realize you were married, single. When did it hit you? Or did it ever hit you? Obviously, you guys got it the worst for a reason.

Speaker 2 42:21

It hit me when I had an affair. That's when it hit me. Because, that's when I realized that I wasn't happy and someone else fulfilled my Neat. So at that point you realize this doesn't work. Yeah. At all, because, yeah, it feels great to be just single and hanging out and doing your own thing, but when y'all don't have the same interests, you don't have the same values values, and then you have someone that does, then you're like oh well, maybe this is, but I'm still single, I'm still selfish.

Speaker 1 43:15

Well, you're married but you're acting single, but I'm acting single, yeah, living separate lives.

Speaker 2 43:21

So for me, I was the one that stepped out on the marriage and so, yeah, that was what happened and that's how I know that doesn't work.

The Realities of Divorce and Relationships

Speaker 1 43:36

You just threw a bomb on this conversation. I mean, I knew that, but you never openly talked about it. And here we are. You want to move on. Yeah, I'll talk about the details another time for another date. We're just going to keep moving on. We're going to talk about divorce. We're done with the marriage question.

Speaker 3 44:02

Look at you. You are like you become a do it.

Speaker 1 44:09

This is a lead into divorce. Let's talk about the war. Oh dear, I'm glad we're drinking, fellow. These are intense. These are intense questions. What the hell? You guys talk about some deep shit in your men's group, that's all I'm saying. But you know what? This is what we're all goes about. We talk about some deep shit here too, so thank you for bringing this to the table. Yes, all right, so we're talking about divorce because we're so. We talked about what works in a marriage, what brings things together.

Speaker 2 44:46

And when you're not practicing those four laws, what happens? Yeah?

Speaker 1 44:49

divorce, divorce, step it out. All that stuff, not some good stuff. Okay, from your experience, what are major causes of divorce? What did you guys talk about? What are the major causes?

Speaker 2 45:02

I'd say two biggest things Unresolved conflict and finances.

Speaker 1 45:08

Finances was not an issue for you guys.

Speaker 2 45:10

Unresolved conflict was.

Speaker 1 45:12

Unresolved conflict.

Speaker 2 45:13

Yes, because we had weekly, monthly arguments about religion. Uh huh. And race all the time.

Speaker 1 45:28

Religion and race were the two conflicts.

Speaker 2 45:30

And you know what we just agreed to disagree.

Speaker 1 45:33

So those are value, value topics. Yes, so you guys were on the wrong side. Well, not on the wrong side, on the opposite side of that argument, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 45:45

Because with religion she was an atheist.

Speaker 1 45:51

I can't believe you.

Speaker 2 45:52

And I was a Christian.

Speaker 1 45:53

To this day. I can't believe you married an atheist yes.

Speaker 2 45:56

But there's a thing she was so lost, and so she was an atheist, she was a Scientologist, she was a Buddhist.

Speaker 1 46:08

And how did you say I'm going to marry Our?

Speaker 2 46:13

dating and marriage.

Speaker 1 46:17

She was all of those things, and you said I am all that and a bag of chips. And I'm going to change her and I will flip this girl.

Speaker 2 46:26

Yes, it was a challenge, Because God is, this is going to flip this whole. And you know what? We got married in a church and she was okay with that. She was okay with that Because because her parents were Christians.

Speaker 1 46:41

Okay.

Speaker 2 46:43

She just wasn't. She grew up as a Christian Okay, but as an adult, when I met her, she wasn't Okay. So, in my mind, because her foundation was that she doesn't need the right person.

Speaker 1 47:00

And that was you, 100%. That was you, felipe.

Speaker 2 47:05

And it wasn't me.

Speaker 1 47:06

I mean some of us have some confidence.

Speaker 2 47:09

Yes, and race problems that we had. Because her mother was white and her father was Ugandan, you know, african, she didn't believe race existed, racism, and so we would have arguments all the time about that. Wow, which was crazy, because I'm like you're a black woman, you're a black woman, you're a double minority.

Speaker 1 47:37

I mean, you look at her and she looks like a black woman.

Speaker 2 47:40

to me she's not going to pass as white.

Speaker 1 47:41

I mean, she's light-skinned, light-skinned.

Speaker 2 47:45

She's light-skinned. She might have an Indian or a family, but this is the thing about it, yeah. When she went to specialty in dentistry. She went to a specialty school, became an endodontist that's people do root canals. That was her first in her mind experience of racism and that's when the first time she admitted that she was discriminated against. Would you know the crazy thing about that wise, what that's? When we became closer and then she had amnesia after that.

Speaker 1 48:30

She forgot, she persevered, and then it was back to there's no racism, there's no racism, it doesn't exist.

Speaker 2 48:37

And yeah, there's no way in the world.

Speaker 1 48:41

That just goes back to. I think as humans, as people, we like to look at someone and see the potential of that person, instead of looking at them for who they are at that moment. Yes, and I think that's not. I think that's where we just we need to stop doing that, it's, it's, it's.

Speaker 2 49:07

We have this idea of like oh, they have that I can change them, I can make them better and if they change, that's wonderful.

Speaker 1 49:14

You have to look at people for who they are in that moment. Yes, can I live with this person? For the rest?

Speaker 2 49:20

of my life.

Speaker 1 49:21

They never change. Yes.

Speaker 2 49:22

If this is who they are, this is who they're going to be for the rest of my life. And if I had that? It would have been a hell, no 100%, yeah, 100%, because sometimes you deal with people and potential.

Speaker 1 49:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2 49:40

You're like oh yeah, but everything else checks the box. This we can work. She's educated. Yeah, she's a professional, she's attractive yeah. She meets all the boxes, but if she never changes, you have to be okay with it. This is not going to work, yeah, and if you can say that, then that's not the one.

Speaker 1 50:06

That's the question, and when you start teaching on women, younger kids?

Speaker 2 50:10

Yes, and women do that a lot.

Speaker 1 50:16

Oh, we're notorious for that. Like oh, he has potential.

Speaker 2 50:20

I can make him better, mm-hmm One. I'm gonna get my way, mm-hmm. So I'm gonna get my way. I'm gonna manipulate this situation, I'm gonna maneuver this situation, I'm going to smart this situation. Whatever you want to say, whatever words you want to throw in there, whatever verb you want to use, and at that point you're gonna say I can make him do what I want him to do, or I can make him become the person that I know he can be. Yeah. And no.

Speaker 1 50:58

And maybe sometimes that does work out for certain people. I'm sure there's people out there that have that story.

Speaker 2 51:03

They'll call in or say, hey, I did that, yeah, that's me. Yeah, but he had to choose to become that person. Yeah, she had to choose to become that person.

Speaker 1 51:15

It's it, yeah, that's the difference Do not make that choice.

Speaker 2 51:19

Yeah, you can't make anyone do anything in this life if they don't want to do it, because they only do it temporarily, they only do it for that moment, for that period of time, and that will not make you happy. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 51:39

Moving on to divorce, they always say that with the second marriage it's a higher probability of a divorce rate. With the second marriage, mm-hmm, but it's interesting that that's like a statistic, right, but I don't, and the people that we know, or that I know, the second marriage seems like it's the stronger marriage.

Speaker 2 51:58

But you know what the biggest key to that?

Speaker 1 52:00

is what is it.

Speaker 2 52:01

Did you learn from the first one?

Speaker 1 52:04

Okay, so what, where does? The statistic come from that. It's a higher probability.

Speaker 2 52:07

I don't learn from that.

Speaker 1 52:08

But I think do you think that's a small percentage? No, I don't that people get remarried and remarried. I feel like people get married. You know what people think? Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 52:17

What are people selfish? Yeah. So what? Who do they place the blame on?

Speaker 1 52:23

the first marriage? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 52:26

This next person I marry. That's gonna be the one.

Speaker 1 52:30

So it's a coincidence that we have all these people in our lives that have been married a second time.

Speaker 2 52:34

Yeah, because you don't want to admit that you're the problem, I know. But who is the common denominator in those multiple marriages?

Speaker 1 52:42

That one person. What I'm trying to say is I find that people did make a mistake with that first one because they rushed into it or didn't see the signs.

Speaker 2 52:52

And the second one was better.

Speaker 1 52:53

With the second one, it seems like they were more conscious of who they're picking. I think it's very rare that that ends. And then there's third wife or fourth wife or fifth wife.

Speaker 2 53:03

What is the thing? That's what I think. This is what did I feel.

Speaker 1 53:06

So I don't know where they got these statistics up, and I would say this because I said this before Okay, All of my siblings have been divorced Presently all of them are on the second one.

Speaker 2 53:20

Or on their second one, except, but you know. So the people that are on their second marriage are happier. They're with their person, yeah, but they learned from their first marriage.

Speaker 1 53:34

I know but that's what I'm saying that I think most people do learn from the first marriage.

Speaker 2 53:39

I don't think our example is the rule. I really don't. I think there's a lot of selfish and most people think, oh no, that's that person's problem. I didn't do anything wrong, I was perfect. I may have one or two things that were wrong with me. I think that's a small percentage.

Speaker 1 54:01

All I'm saying is the second divorce, the second marriage doesn't seem.

Speaker 2 54:07

You think the second marriage is more successful.

Speaker 1 54:09

That's what I'm saying because you learned. I think this theory of that the divorce rate for second marriage is higher is flawed, right, because there is, there are. There is a small percentage of people that just don't learn, and they do have multiple divorces, but for the most part I agree to disagree. I think listen, get out of here. I don't know. I think some people do learn from that first one. I think most people don't I do.

Speaker 2 54:42

I think most people are selfish.

Speaker 1 54:43

I'm not saying people are not selfish.

Speaker 2 54:46

I think most people think that they're not the problem.

Speaker 1 54:49

So you're saying there's more people on this planet that have a third?

Speaker 2 54:53

marriage, a fourth marriage, a fifth marriage under their belt, I think, after the second one. I think they don't do it anymore.

Speaker 1 55:01

That's what I think. I don't know.

Speaker 2 55:02

I think most people are like hey, you know what Most people. Obviously you have exceptions to rules. I think most people walk into their second marriage thinking they were not the problem in their first.

Speaker 1 55:17

I agree, I do agree with that, but then they grow with that second person I am.

Speaker 2 55:24

I'm only basing it. I'm basing it on the people that are around us. I agree with that 100%, because the people around of us around us are better in their second marriage.

Speaker 1 55:33

Yes, that's what I say 100%, 100% so. I'm just going off of that. I don't know about the rest of the world. I feel like there's a lot of people that are on their first marriage, that have been married for like 40, 50 years, 30 years, that are miserable, so I don't really count them. They feel like I feel like they pride themselves on oh, we're still married. But who wants to be married that long and be miserable?

Speaker 1 55:54

anyway, I don't know. Okay, so, speaking of second marriages, we're going to go off that most people stay married to their second spouse. I refuse to believe that they're, that they're the minority. I don't think they're the minority. I think they're the majority, but with those people, since I wasn't technically married, but I had a child with someone. So I don't know, maybe we can learn from that.

Speaker 2 56:30

That was deeper than just breaking up with someone. What have you done?

Speaker 1 56:34

differently in the second marriage. What have you learned? What has God revealed to you? What's your contribution to the failure of your first marriage that you didn't bring into the second? Let's talk about that.

Speaker 2 56:48

I think for me one of the best things that happened to me was like we had pre marriage counseling, but after we were divorced we had we did counseling together and then we did individual counseling. I carried on with my individual counseling with our person that we counseled with after our divorce.

Speaker 1 57:15

So you guys went to counseling after the divorce. That's very interesting.

Speaker 2 57:20

Uh, throughout the yeah, when we had that process of the divorce to decide if we really knew what to get divorced right.

Therapy and Self-Reflection in Marriage

Speaker 2 57:29

And I continued, even though we got divorced with that same counselor individually and worked through problems. Cause I think that's why I feel so adamant about it is, if I didn't do that, even though I wasn't, um, your, I was your person and we were meant to be together. But I would have been and I would not have been the person that I was when we got married if I hadn't gone through that counseling.

Speaker 1 58:09

You think so?

Speaker 2 58:09

And I wasn't even perfect after I'd gone through it, obviously because we still had problems. But with that counseling I recognize where I contributed to our marriage not working even. Yeah, obviously I was unfaithful, but also there was things that I contributed to that process that if I hadn't gone through that counseling and that therapy, that I would have um brought into our marriage. I would have brought baggage suitcases that I had to unpack with that therapist prior to our marriage, cause if I hadn't, I would have walked in thinking I wasn't the problem and I would have repeated that process in our marriage.

Speaker 1 59:18

And you would have had to sleep with one eye open because I would have punched you in the throat, cut off body parts, right yeah. So aren't you glad you went to therapy because I would have died in my sleep. I wouldn't have killed you in your sleep, I would not have done that, but I would severely have hurt you in your sleep, or not even in your sleep you could have been awake.

Speaker 2 59:46

So yeah, I think from uh, so therapy helped. Therapy helped 100%, and that's the thing in the black community that you know we don't want to. We think therapy is like for white people and uh, therapy is just for people. I mean, mental health is a true problem, but the thing is you have to think. With therapies, you have to look within yourself, because you can't think that it is someone else's problem.

Speaker 1 1:00:20

And you get someone that you know. Obviously they're not emotionally tied up with your situation, so they're just kind of.

Speaker 2 1:00:26

They have a very subjective.

Speaker 1 1:00:27

Yeah, they have zero emotions.

Speaker 2 1:00:34

Right and they can give you perspective on it. And with any mental health, any mental or whatever thing, you have to Be able to cope and deal with your issues.

Speaker 1 1:00:46

What were some? What were some things that you think would have if you hadn't had therapy. You would have brought into this marriage, like what were some epiphanies for you?

Speaker 2 1:00:58

Oh, I see what you're doing there. I see what you're doing. What am I doing? So what? I would have walked into your question. I would have walked into this, thinking, just like I said, that nothing that took place was my problem. Like what? I want, I'm just curious despite her being an atheist, despite her not thinking that racism existed, I, I still would have Seen where I Was selfish.

Speaker 1 1:01:33

Like, whatever you did was justified because of this and this and this don't align with me. Okay, exactly.

Speaker 2 1:01:39

Because, yeah, those were two big things that we argued about and those were undisolved conflicts. But if I didn't realize the things that I contributed to the marriage, that was my fault, the things that I needed to resolve with myself, then I would have walked into our relationship thinking, yeah, when this happens, then it's really not me.

Speaker 2 1:02:10

It has to, it has to be Leannette's problem, and maybe I wouldn't have had that God moment when I was about to leave and walk out, that day that I Realize that you know what it is about me.

Speaker 2 1:02:29

I'm not perfect, I'm not someone that's without fault or blame, and that was hard to down and face that in the first marriage and To see that, you know, I actually did contribute to that. Besides, besides the obvious things Because everyone can bring up the obvious things, that's a problem, but that's the things that that are underlying that you actually also Contribute to this whole process. And so when it is Something that you have to look at yourself and you have to say, hey, this is what I contributed to this Situation and this is something that I need to improve on, that's when you really grow and that's when you really have to look within yourself and say, hey, yeah, you didn't do this. Well, you Brought on this issue and this is something you need to improve on, because you can ever do. You just gonna take that baggage, you're gonna take that Suitcase and bring it to you don't travel with that, you gonna bring it into the next one and then just continue to think, hey, I'm gonna unpack it here. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 1:03:47

I'm gonna bring this suitcase down, this baggage, into this relationship and Well, some of us don't like to unpack suitcases.

Speaker 1 1:03:53

I just stay clothes. Exactly, I'm just putting a closet somewhere.

Speaker 2 1:04:00

And then yeah, and here we are. I.

Navigating Love and Communication in Relationships

Speaker 1 1:04:04

Mean some good stuff. You were very vulnerable today, for the very proud of you. Thank you very um, I Hate that you got a divorce, but I'm thankful at the same time. Can't can two emotions exist like. Divorce is always sad and and you never want that. However, we wouldn't have the life that we have had an event for you getting a divorce, yes. So you know Negative can be turned into positives.

Speaker 2 1:04:40

You really want something different for yourself cuz Khalil and Karen would not be here right now, no, so yes, that's a beautiful thing. It is a beautiful thing I wouldn't have gotten to be with Kaylin.

Speaker 1 1:04:52

Yeah, I've been in her life and missed out on all this amazing, this that's sitting in front of you. Oh my goodness. I can't even imagine I am like so fun, I'm hilarious, yes, and I keep you on your toes 100%, 100%.

Speaker 2 1:05:12

So you know, this is the life that we built. Mm-hmm. This is the life that we have together and it hasn't always been amazing and beautiful and perfect.

Speaker 1 1:05:25

But you know what.

Speaker 2 1:05:27

It is what it has been? Yeah, because we are who we are and we've learned from it, we've grown from it, but the bottom line through all of this is that we've always loved each other. Yeah, we've never not loved each other. Now we might not have liked each other at the moment.

Speaker 1 1:05:45

I've always liked you. What are you talking about, phillip? I always liked you.

Speaker 2 1:05:49

Yeah, we've always loved each other. Yeah, and we always knew what our foundation and at the yes, at the core of everything.

Speaker 1 1:05:57

We do have the same I ideas and values of what we want from our life.

Speaker 2 1:06:05

For our kids in this world.

Speaker 1 1:06:07

It's the same, yes, so, even though situations arise that are Feel devastating at the time, or feel overwhelming or feel you know, you just feel your feelings deep down, you know we're on the same page, we're on the same team and this is an uncomfortable situation and an uncomfortable moment, but we believe and we have the same goals and we believe in the same things. The foundation is solid, right?

Speaker 1 1:06:34

So all this other little shit that comes up, it's just a matter of communicating, right, being honest, being real, being open and we can resolve that conflict and being mature enough to receive it, because sometimes it's hard to receive yes, information that, like you, can tell me that, oh, you're being a certain kind of way in this moment. That's not who I am at my core. I'm being that person at that moment. And you should be able to say that and I need to be able to receive it, even though it's not comfortable. I'm not gonna receive it with like, oh yes, you're right, Phillip.

Speaker 2 1:07:09

I'm being selfish. Nobody loves that but if you haven't had that moment, like I said previously, if I didn't have that Therapy, I Would have never recognized, when you brought that up, that I was in the wrong.

Speaker 1 1:07:29

Mm-hmm also, it's a balance and we'll end you know we're ending this conversation crazy but I feel Within looking at that there's a balance of where you have to show that person that you really love them and really are there for them, so that when you do bring up something that's uncomfortable, they know that it's coming from a place of love.

Speaker 1 1:07:56

Yeah of that. I'm bringing this to you because it doesn't feel right in my spirit and we talk about it, right, and then that other person receives it like shit. You know, yeah, this I don't like. You bring this to my attention, right, but I know it's coming from place of love, because everything else in our lives you show me that you love me, you show that is the magic sauce. Yes, I feel that's the magic sauce is very hard to get to that point, but but once you get there, it's like, okay, this is a safe space. He's, it's. He's not talking about me as a person, he's just talking about me in that situation, right. And then I can step back and and and look at it and be like, yeah, you're right or maybe sometimes you're not right, but let's have a conversation about why you think that this is my perspective.

Speaker 1 1:08:43

This is where I'm coming from, this is why I reacted that way or this is why I say what I said. Let's get some perspective and have that conversation, but it has to be. It has to come from a place of I am secure With this relationship with this person. Right, because they have shown me X, y and Z, so that when they bring some crap to me that I need to change it's and I and that's lacking in a lot of relationships, not even just romantic relationships, just relationships in general with mom and a dad or a mom and a daughter, a mom and a son or a Sister and a brother or sister and a sister. It's that insecure that you maybe you don't feel Seen or hurt by that person, so every little thing feels like an attack because you don't feel like you have a foundation, 100%.

Speaker 2 1:09:35

Yeah so it's just relationships. It's almost like what daddy used to say and I don't know if I'm saying this correctly, because those are the biggest thing you always said when you have an argument or discussion, is it the right time, is it the truth, and is it from a place of love, and if you can answer yes to all of that, and then you have that conversation. But so yeah, you're right. So thank you.

Speaker 1 1:10:04

No, I thank you. I thank you, felipe. Thank you, felipe. Thank you, philip. This was a Deep conversation. I know you and I can talk about marriage for forever. I'm sure we'll come back and talk about other things. I feel like we're passionate about it, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:10:26

All right, love you. I love you too, thanks.

Speaker 1 1:10:31

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