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Virago 24/7
Virago 24/7 is a podcast that brings women from all walks of life together. Host, Lyanette Talley, invites everyday women to talk about a variety of topics such as, marriage, divorce, children, friendships, self-love, self-care and really anything affecting our lives and our world. Conversations with friends are what help us feel like we are not alone. Virago 24/7 brings these conversations to you! A Virago is a woman who demonstrates heroic qualities. The original meaning is Latin for “female warrior.” The numbers 24/7 remind us that we are female warriors all day every day! Here you will find everyday growth, everyday healing with everyday warriors.
Virago 24/7
Beyond the Vows Part 1
When Philip and I escaped to Tybee Island, little did we know that our new condo's acoustics would become the backdrop for a heart-to-heart on marriage that's as real as it gets. It's not every day you find two lovebirds willing to spill the beans on keeping the fires burning after 18 years, but here we are—juggling humor, honesty, and a dash of warrior spirit. Join us as we wander through the winding paths of partnership, from the profound to the practical (yes, even dishwasher loading strategies make the cut), and how we're tackling the Four Laws of Love with two feet firmly on the ground.
Step into our living room as Philip unpacks insights from his men's group about the trials of marriage and divorce, while I reflect on the steps we've taken to ensure our relationship remains the main event, kids notwithstanding. We're talking full transparency here—the deep dives into communication, the perils of 'agreeing to disagree,' and those pivotal vulnerabilities that turn trust from a buzzword into the bedrock of our bond. And for those wondering about the longevity of love, we share our secrets to dodging the infidelity bullet and keeping the connection as exhilarating as a first date.
So, what's the takeaway from two nearly-two-decade veterans of matrimony, you ask? It's the art of prioritizing one another, the importance of shared happy places (couple's vacations for the win!), and the transformative power of facing conflicts head-on, no holds barred. Tune in for an episode that's less about presenting a flawless love story and more about the grit and grace it takes to carve out a fulfilling journey, together.
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Everyday growth, everyday healing with everyday warriors!
Music by Deli Rowe: "Space to Move"
Logo by Kaylin Talley
Hi, I am your host, Lyanette Talley, and you are listening to Virago 24-7. Virago is Latin for female warrior and 24-7 is for all day, every day. Virago 24-7 is a weekly podcast that brings diverse women together to talk about life and our experiences in this world. We share our views on self-love, mental health, marriage, children, friendships and really anything that needs to be talked about. Here you will find everyday growth, everyday healing with everyday warriors. Hello. I always try to figure out a new way of starting the show, but hello is always what comes to my mind. So boring, so generic, but hello everybody. Virago has hit the road and I actually brought my equipment. The acoustics here are so much better than there are in my she Cave, but I brought my microphones and my equipment and we are in Tybee Island, Georgia, in our new condo and I have my partner in crime here.
Speaker 2:Felipe, hey, beautiful people.
Speaker 1:Hello, how can I start my show? You know, in a very exciting way. I'm always like hello, that's so boring. Hey, that's you, though, that's all I got. Oh, you guys heard that. I mean it's you, that's your personality.
Speaker 2:I got you, let's back.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, you be you. Don't worry about being somebody else. I thought you were. I thought you were calling me boring because I know that's the last thing you are just what?
Speaker 1:yesterday or the day before, I was like you were laughing at me and I said I got to keep you on your toes and you call me crazy. And I said, yes, I am, because we got to keep things exciting. So I got to bring the crazy out because you, it's like a sneak attack. I don't want you to get bored with me, felipe. Like we said, I don't need you getting bored with me. So, anyways, we are here away from my she cave and I like the acoustics here and the she cave. It is like a cave. So we sometimes have to, like you know, watch how we talk into the microphone.
Speaker 2:But today, yeah, it's nice, it's a cloudy day, but we're happy.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:We're in our happy place.
Speaker 1:This has become my happy place. So, anyways, we're here today because we like to talk and Philip has some things that he wants to bring to Virago. Why?
Speaker 2:Philip has something to bring to Virago.
Speaker 1:Oh well, okay, Fine, okay, we have some stuff that we want. Listen, we like to talk about marriage.
Speaker 2:We've done it a few times and yeah, actually my first time on here was talking about marriage.
Speaker 1:Why are you trying to sound all sexy and stuff?
Speaker 2:I mean that's just my voice.
Speaker 1:You brought a little bit low where you're like yeah wait, that's my radio voice. That's your radio voice. All right, let me hear your radio voice, philip. Hey beautiful people, I'm a lucky, lucky lady. I get to hear that voice every day. Yes, you are Actually.
Speaker 1:Actually, I do like that deep voice. Sometimes I'm like, all right, back it up, say that again, and you get all embarrassed and stuff and I say it again and then you say it again, all right, so no, anyways, it's interesting because we've been wanting to talk about marriage things not that we're experts or anything, but we like to talk about it because we're going on 18. No, we are at 18, not going on 18. We're going on 19. Oh damn. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Man, I'm not really on it, but it's ironic that we've been pushing it off. Pushing it off, and I think this is a good time because in your men's group, as we've mentioned before, you're a part of a men's group at a church in our area, at your church, at our church. It's a long story, people, it's a long story for another time, but you're a part of a men's group and you guys are actually talking.
Speaker 2:Well, last Friday we had a men's group discussion on marriage and one of our members is does divorce care at our, at our church, and he was the person leading the discussion and I thought it was perfect because you know, we've been talking about having a discussion on marriage. And then he had us. He wanted us to watch a video prior to coming into our men's group that morning and he requested that you watch the video with your wife. And so we watched the video, you and I, on the Four Laws of Marriage by Jimmy Evans, and then Robert had a bunch of questions on marriage and divorce, and so I agreed to even answer the divorce questions.
Speaker 1:Cause I told you this morning sometimes I forget I was married. We're walking, he's like we're going to talk about marriage and there's some questions on there, but you know we can't relate to the divorce questions, so we'll just skip those. And I'm like, um, you know, you've been divorced, like you were married before me and there was a whole divorce. And you're like, oh yeah, I forgot about.
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 1:I'm like do you really? I do, you can't do that. You can't forget about your first marriage.
Speaker 2:That's true. It's funny, cause, um, as Robert was going around asking, we asked everyone to um, cause we have some new members in our men's group. So he asked everyone to say you know how many years you've been married? You know the age of your kids? And so one of the guys said, well, this is my first marriage. And of course we started laughing like okay, you're about to have a second one. And uh, so then, as I was talking, I was like, oh yeah, cause you know, I was the last person to talk, cause we went around the table and I happened to be the last person where I was seated, and so I had to think about it. I was like, oh yeah, this is not my first marriage, but yeah, it's not something I usually think about anyway, so, it is what it is.
Speaker 1:Well, here we are All right. Since this is you know I know it's my podcast, but I feel like you want to drive this train, I'll take over the wheel when I feel like I need to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you do in real life.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm going to have you leave, but if you're not driving the train the way I thought you should drive it, I'm just going to take it over.
Speaker 2:Like you tried to do when we were driving.
Speaker 1:Okay, Okay, Listen, Phillip, when we were driving here, right there's a strip like okay, if anybody has ever been to South, like south of Georgia, like you go through Macon, from Macon to Savannah, they're doing a lot of construction. It's been probably the past 15 years, the same kind of construction and they're making some progress, but there's there's still some stuff going on and there's like these concrete barriers and a lot, of, a lot of curves going on on this highway and you were like driving with one arm drinking from the other, like taking these, these curves, like like you were a race car driver or something at night, in the dark. And let me clarify.
Speaker 1:It was. It was I thought I was, I was holding on from for dear life Like.
Speaker 2:I was drinking a Red Bull Because, you know, and that's like you drinking on one hand and driving all crazy. So no, I wasn't drinking.
Speaker 1:You were hugging those curves. And I said listen, I want to make it down to the beach Because I've been looking forward to this for the past few weeks and I'm not. I'm not ready to like go to heaven yet Got it, so anyways. So, yeah, sometimes I got to. You know, be a backseat driver, Call it what you want. Call it what you want. All right, when?
Speaker 2:are we going to start? Where are we going to start? We're going to start with some marriage questions, the Four Laws of Marriage. Okay, let's talk about that first. Let's do that, let's do that.
Speaker 1:So that's what the video was about.
Speaker 2:So the video it says Four Laws of Marriage and a couple of things that he talked about is the Four Laws. You know, if you follow these Four Laws it will make sure that your marriage is successful. Okay, 100% chance for success in marriage when you do these Four Laws of Love. He says.
Speaker 1:Okay. So before we get into the Laws, do you feel like people get into marriages without really thinking about who they're marrying and that's why there's a lot of divorce? Or even if you quote, unquote, pick the one that maybe wasn't meant for you, do these laws, if you follow these laws, could they work? I feel like we get into marriages that with the wrong person, but would these laws work? What do you think?
Speaker 2:Would these laws work if you married the wrong person?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a good question.
Speaker 1:I know this is why I'm here Hard hitting questions. I should be on TV somewhere.
Speaker 1:Doing the evening news, asking the hard hitting questions, we go off track. We were watching the morning show on Apple TV with Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston and a bunch of other people. Steve Carrell is in there, but yeah, I feel like man, that was my, that was my path. But then I'm watching the show. I'm like there's a lot of freaking drama behind the scenes and I don't know. I don't know if I would have worked well in that environment.
Speaker 1:I was going to say. I was going to say made it. But I'm like I could have made it. Yeah, I just probably wouldn't have worked well in those environments with these men. Anyways, go on. So I know. Okay, back on track.
Speaker 2:But so that's a good question, but these four laws work with the wrong person. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Okay. So in your first marriage, whether we say it was wrong person or not, if you had followed these laws, do you think you would still be married to her? Oh, that is a very good question, all right. Well, let's go through the laws and then you can answer the question.
Speaker 2:Let me look at that because, as I go through the laws and I'll think, I'll think about that and then I'll come back and answer your question. Okay, so let me do that. All right.
Speaker 2:All right. So the first law is law. Well, this is all coming from Genesis to 2425. Therefore, shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh and they will both naked, the man and his wife, and we're not ashamed. So, based on those two verses, he came up with the four laws of marriage. And the first law is law of priority A man shall leave his father and mother. If you have to choose, you choose your spouse over family, parents, in-laws, children. Your spouse has priority over family. So that's the first law. And that means the most important person in relationship is your. In your life is your spouse, other than your relationship with Jesus? She has top priority over anything else. She comes first, and most of the things that destroy marriages are good things that are out of priority. What do you think of?
Speaker 1:that. I think that's right. I feel like with us that's how it is. We love our children, we love our families, but you and I come first, above all of that 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think I've already told you this, but, as our pastor said last Sunday that he tells his kids all the time I chose my wife, I was stuck, I was stuck with y'all, or something like that. So, but you know, and our kids know, our number one priority not that they're not a priority, but they're going to be gone and this kind of goes to one of the things that we'll talk about but that Robert brought up was that most he said, what do you think, out of all these years I've been doing divorce care and all the books that you read, when does, when does the divorce happen?
Speaker 1:When the kids are grown.
Speaker 2:Exactly when they're out the house.
Speaker 1:A lot of them.
Speaker 2:A lot of them. He said the majority of the marriages happened then because, you know, the priority has been their kids. And now the kids are gone and they really don't know their wife or their husband and now they're like who are you? You're not the person. I married and I've been devoted, or we've been devoted to our kids and they've been number one priority, not us.
Speaker 2:I'd still go back to, and I have to thank Carolyn, my sisters that was one of the things she did early on in our marriage was to say, hey, y'all need to have a vacation and, like Robert always tells us, you know, vacation is with your wife. When you go on a trip with your kids, that's a family trip. That's not a vacation, it's not at all. So we made a priority because Carolyn and still dead in us to go have a vacation once a year, just the two of us, and it is definitely the best thing that we've ever done for our marriage. So long priority. I agree with that 100%. Your marriage, your wife, have to be first over kids, over parents. If you have to choose hopefully you don't have to, but your marriage has to be a number one priority, all right. So that's number one. I don't think we have any input on that.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:All right. So you have to pursue and show cleave unto his wife. And he says that cleave in the original Hebrew means to pursue with all your energy. Cleave means like to climb a mountain. It means to use all your energy for something. So marriage is work. From the very beginning God told us marriage is work and it doesn't work unless you work at it. We have this romantic misconception that if I have to work at the relationship there's something wrong with it. And a lot of people truly believe if I have to work at my marriage, it means I didn't marry my soulmate. Tell me what do you think it up?
Speaker 1:Well, even though I believe that we we've always said that there's multiple soulmates, so we feel like we, our souls, are super connected, but we still have had to quote, unquote work on it, and so I feel like that's. The other question is like what cause? I feel like there's some people that are in marriages that aren't meant to be and it's just like like it's truly working and it's taxing and it's like, and so people are it's. I think it's dangerous to say, oh, marriage is work, marriage is work, marriage is work, and so when people are really truly working at it but it's really not going anywhere, they feel like, oh, this is what marriage is, and they kind of stay in it.
Speaker 1:I get that and that's what the mindset, or that's what has been preached is marriage is work. Marriage is work. I think there's a difference.
Speaker 2:Well, the difference is if you had to add this one last little sentence to that. But you have to see good results.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You can't always be working. Yeah, and think that cause you have. Once you see the result, a good result from the work that you put in, then you know, I don't know, I just, I don't know, for some reason I don't like.
Speaker 1:I don't like that phrase. Marriage is work. Right, because some people are working hard. Yeah, you're right, and it's not going anywhere Cause you're not getting rich.
Speaker 1:But they feel like this is, this is what it should feel like. I feel like, yeah, it's work, but it shouldn't be like taxing on your spirit, on your soul. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, your emotions might be. You know, there's times where I've been crying to you or you've been upset or I've been upset, but deep down it's not really like, it's not detrimental to my spirit. It's just that situation and I know in my heart that this is just something that we have to overcome, to pass it. There's a difference between knowing like this is temporary versus like, wow, this is what this person brings out of me is like the sadness, or this this again, this is the result.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the result.
Speaker 1:And that's dangerous to always say, oh, it's work, it's work, it's work for them, the people that are really yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know you have to get, you have to put in some work to be intentional. You know, that's the word I love to use.
Speaker 1:So okay. So I know we have a lot of conversations about marriage. I don't remember if I heard this on a podcast on the radio, if it was in the video, but or you taught you and I talked about it about in our work. We take continue education classes. Was that with you? Okay, so we take a lot of courses to get, better to get better. And then with marriage, it's like we don't, we don't do yeah.
Speaker 2:So what was that was with you, right? Robert actually opened up the discussion after he asked everyone you know how long they've been married? And then he said well, how many of you at work have to take continue education courses and how many of you have to do team building at work and you know, do you have to get cert, certifications and upkeep and stuff like that? So you know, obviously the majority of the guys said yes, they do. They kept, you know, they raised, they rose the end. So he said, well, this is funny, but all of us are married. So how many of y'all actually like take some courses on marriage, read books on marriage? I mean, if you can do this at work, you should be able to do this on your marriage, because it's not going to happen just because you wake up every morning that your marriage is going to be amazing. So those were. He made a good point because you know not, as many hands went up when he asked those questions. You know, how many times did y'all take a course on it?
Speaker 2:And then I think the church had offered one and one of the guys was like, yeah, you know, the church offered one like a year or two ago, and he said yeah, so I just took one and then the other kind of group was like yeah, but that really was like three or four years ago, so you know that was a great point, because you know we're married and it's not like something just going to osmosis, you're just going to get better with it.
Speaker 1:And I think also I mean, you know some people I know we've read books or we've read certain things, but maybe not everyone is into that kind of stuff. But I also think, sitting down and just talking I don't know how, how, I know we do that, but I don't know how common that is for people to really sit down and talk to and really talk about the real thing yeah, do you think that happens often Of?
Speaker 2:course not.
Speaker 1:I don't think so yeah yeah, yeah, you just want to just throw things under and put it in a closet.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Sweep it under the rug, put it in the couch cushions with pennies, all right, you know, put it in a suitcase and keep it there and, you know, still walk around with it. So, and the other things on the law pursuit says it needs of a woman to one woman needs to have security, open and honest communication, soft, non-sexual affection and leadership. Needs of a man honor and respect, sex friendship, domestic support. What do you think of that?
Speaker 1:I agree 100%.
Speaker 2:I agree, I agree 1000%. And if you practice the law pursuit, you tell your spouse your first. You're not a burden, you're not a distraction. I love serving you. What do you need? Serving each other is the only way a marriage works. Any comment on that?
Speaker 1:I mean, it's true. So the times where I feel yes, for sure I don't want to speak for all women, but I think the majority of us do want that security and the times where I felt insecure were times where I wasn't feeling insecure Like you were showing that, like I wasn't a priority, that other things were a priority and I just have to deal with certain things. It is what it is, this is who I am, this is what I do types, personality, and so it would. It didn't feel secure, right, and I acted very insecure, right, especially since I'm a competent, freaking woman. You made me feel insecure is a lot of the times when you, I didn't feel like I was a priority 100% yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think with you know me, that's what you wanted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I had those discussions.
Speaker 1:Yes but I think a lot of the times you weren't listening to me. You were, you were hearing, but you weren't like truly listening. I feel like in the past few years I have finally caught on. Yeah, I do, don't you think? Why did it take you so long, philip? It took you like 15 years.
Speaker 2:That's true, I'm a flawed individual. Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 1:You know, you know what. And I was patient. Don't say that I wasn't you were patient.
Speaker 1:Don't say don't say that I'm not a patient person because I was patient. No, I mean, I'm not saying it's all you, but in in that realm of me feeling secure, I I feel like in the past, maybe four to five years, I really no, no, that's too many years. Maybe in the past two to three years, from being honest with myself, where I feel very secure in who I am and You've helped with that but also to be honest with you in the back of my head is like I'm secure and, whatever Happens, I feel like in the past I was always like looking Okay, the next shooter yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, and if the shoe drops, I'm good, I'm gonna be okay, right, and I knew that before. But now I really truly feel that, yeah, and I think that's when you started step up. No, I'm kidding, no, I'm kidding. You've always been, you've always been amazing.
Speaker 2:but but I've been more intentional. Yes, that's true, you're right. Yeah, I agree with that 100%. Yeah, All right was number three law of partnership, okay, and it says, as they shall be one. So felt selfishness is the main problem in marriages selfishness, selfishness, selfishness. Okay, I'm sorry, let me say that word.
Speaker 1:So that's okay. I have some words like worship sauce. It's something probably and anything that has a T in the middle, like paint, paint and pay cotton, cotton button, but Anything with a T, I feel like you have some issues with that and we're such a sauce.
Speaker 2:Yes. But I don't think I'm the only selfishness and make is the main problem in marriages. If I'm okay, then you're okay. That's, you know, selfish. I need you to be like me. Hmm, think like me, make decisions like me, put the way the dishes like me, same problems, priorities. Like me, I had the dishes part. That that's not. That's.
Speaker 1:That's not part of that's not on the, because I was like, oh, that one, that one they had owned in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, I have a system and I wish I would love to give a course on how to properly Put dishes in a dishwasher. There's a system to make it efficient that most people aren't aware of. You start from the back to the front. The bulls go in certain sections, the place go in certain sections. Yeah, and I try not to add Big items like big pots or pans. I rather wash those by hand so that they don't take up a lot of space in the dishwasher. Anyways, that's a side note. It is definitely that if you guys need sharing, if you need me to come to your home to give a tutorial on how to properly Fill a dishwasher efficiently on your girl, okay, the one yes, all right.
Speaker 2:There can be no dominance, no bullying. Dominance means I don't respect you as an equal. Everything has to be my way. Partnership means you and your spouse are equals. Everything I have belongs to you. You make all your decisions together, you talk about it, you pray about it and you come to an agreement. You have to be equal partners for marriage to work. No one can control the relationship. That's the law of partnership. You have to share. Being selfish doesn't work.
Speaker 1:All right. What do you think about that? How do we, what grade do we get on this now? Well, yeah, well, no, okay. Sometimes we forget about in 18 years. What's wrong with this?
Speaker 2:And this is what I shared in the men's group, because robbers like, hey, what did you get from the video? And I said so, being selfish Because you know being I mean, you're dating people up until that point, obviously got married, but Prior to that, I think everyone's really selfish when it's just it's just you. So all you think about is yourself and what makes you happy, what pleases you, what are you gonna do that day, what are you gonna eat. And then, when you get married, all of that has to switch and that doesn't switch or change.
Speaker 2:Maybe it becomes easy for others, but that was hard not being selfish early on in marriage, in our marriage. So that that was a learning thing. You know I have to think about, okay, well, what would lean at one or what. You know that's not something that comes natural. I think most people are very selfish people. So that was a key part, as you do have to share you, and I think you have Made me a more generous person. I think that's one of the many things that you have made me be a better person, because I am definitely a lot more generous and not as selfish as I used to be, and that's all because of you oh for sure, that's so true.
Speaker 2:So yeah, selfishness is a big thing, because I mean you have to surrender.
Speaker 1:How have I been selfish in our marriage?
Speaker 2:Mmm, let me think about that. That's a good question.
Speaker 1:You should say you haven't lean at. You've always been selfless.
Speaker 2:All right, let me think about that. I'm curious that question. Have you been selfish? Hmm that's actually probably one of your Many yes, because I actually can't think Well, no, no, no, oh.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, oh you thought of something in 18 years. There's one thing everybody, what is it?
Speaker 2:because I was reading this. I need to think like me, make decisions like me, and I don't think like you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't selfish that is okay, because you won't, because we have arguments about I know, but the way I think it's like Like the right way of thinking.
Speaker 2:Mmm.
Speaker 1:Okay, so most of the time, 98% of the time right, it's just that 2%. That's you percent. That selfish I mean. The fact that you had to think about it says a lot, Ladies and gentlemen hey, you win, you're in in the quarter, okay. I Mean I have a lot of things to work on, but I try to be selfless when I can. That's why I get so upset. Sometimes I'm like I do everything. I.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you're definitely all in on that's true, and it's a lot of.
Speaker 1:I'm a very dynamic person, always See the one side or the other. Everything no middle never.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, I got better those words hold off.
Speaker 1:Hold up, wait a minute. You've taught me well. I Started off that way. Yes, I have moments where I'm like and then I have to stop myself.
Speaker 1:It's an opportunity for growing in 18 years of marriage, I've really Aware of the all or none For a mentality. Yes, I don't do that anymore because they're crazy. And then when I hear other people do and I was like, yeah, it really stands out. When you hear other people do it right 100%, I'm like, why be so? All or nothing, people. And then I have to remember okay, I used to be like that it takes time people. It takes time to To to work through these issues. Yeah, all right. So the last law, number four law of purity.
Speaker 2:Adam and his wife were both naked and they felt no shame. Naked means open and Exposed. Insipacy can only occur in a relationship where you're careful about what you say and Do and you take responsibility for what you've done wrong. Your spouse will not open up to someone with a smart mouth who is sarcastic, has the wrong tone when they talk. Trust is earned and drops and lost in buckets. It can take a long time to earn and regain a person's trust. When an atmosphere of purity exists, you're careful about what you say and what you do. When you make a mistake, you immediately take responsibility for it and ask for forgiveness. When you can talk with complete safety, this is when true intimacy occurs. Thoughts and I know you have a bunch of them on that, or maybe not. I think you just like spaced out.
Speaker 1:I was talking whatever can you repeat the question please?
Speaker 2:Earn and drop and lost in buckets. Be careful in what you do, what you say and what you did. What you do and that Was that your spouse will not open up to someone with a smart mouth into me can only current relationship where you're careful about what you say and do.
Speaker 1:Okay, maybe I zone doubt, because you're really mumbling through that. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just love purity. Your spouse will not open up to someone with a smart mouth.
Speaker 1:I got a smart mouth and I do have to pay attention to it.
Speaker 2:It's all about trust. When I feel like you trust that person, okay, then you'll be more vulnerable. With yes, you'll be more open and, yeah, you have to be careful about yes, breaking that trust with someone.
Speaker 1:I can relate to that very, very, very much. I do have a smart ass mouth and I realized when I use a smart ass mouth, thinking them, you know it's, it's a defense mechanism. If you think about it, sure it makes you shut down. So I've had to learn to not use the smart ass mouth but still be able to speak how I feel, but in a more respectful way. And then I feel when I've done that, I've got more out of you than just when I'm being sarcastic because I better respond.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's more my nature and then with you, you me feeling safe enough to bring something up and Feel like I'm being heard, because in the beginning I Would hold that stuff to myself. It would be faster, and then I would explode, vomit all over you with my words and and. And it was because I'm I didn't feel Like I could say things in the moment, because I didn't want to rock the boat, because in my past experience, not just with like relationships, like romantic relationships, just in relationships in general with family members Anytime I would speak my mind it would turn into a battle and so I didn't, I didn't always show that and then I would look like the crazy person because I would just blow up, blow up. Yeah, I think now, after so many years, I can say things in the moment. I feel like you'll respond well and even if you don't, we can talk about it in a respectful way and keep it moving.
Speaker 2:Mary yeah, all right, I can answer that question now.
Speaker 1:All right, which one After all these four, uh-huh?
Speaker 2:The answer would be no.
Speaker 1:These don't work. Why?
Speaker 2:do you say that If you're with the wrong person, why do you say that?
Speaker 2:Because I got told you before I made a list with Carolyn oh, my soulmate was. And then there were deal breakers on that list and one of the deal breakers was, uh, that person had to be a Christian. So, even if I followed these four laws of marriage, there's a couple on it. So the whole premise of this wouldn't work, because my first wife was not a Christian. So we couldn't even practice some of these things. Or I couldn't even practice some of these things. Well, it had to be we, because I couldn't be doing it by myself. We couldn't even practice some of these things because that's not something she believed in. So no, that wouldn't have worked for me, for you, if you asked me, because if I practice these four things, would our marriage have worked?
Speaker 1:There's a lot of Christians, where there's a lot of marriages, where there's two Christians and they get divorced. Get out of here.
Speaker 2:Yes, so you're right.
Speaker 1:So I understand your situation, but I don't know if that's across the board.
Speaker 2:No, I mean first I need to answer it. Yes For you. You did ask it wouldn't have worked for you, it wouldn't work for me, yeah, but can you be with the right person, the wrong person? Practice these four laws? I think you could, but I think you're just. I mean a lot of people in marriage. They're just. You know they're in marriages and they live and be with the other and you know they were with their own person. They don't get a divorce.
Speaker 1:I know, but they're not happy.
Speaker 2:They're not completely happy.
Speaker 1:They're not happy and then they die and everything is great. I can't live that way.
Speaker 2:No, but a lot of people do that, I know.
Speaker 1:And I feel very sad for them. And if they practice these, would that?
Speaker 2:make their marriage better. Is that what you're asking?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Would they make their marriage better? I think it would make their marriage better. Yes, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:And they worked on those, these four laws, and maybe they'll fall in love with each other Again, again, or for the first time, or whatever. But yes, so I think it could at least save a marriage, even for you, with the wrong person. At least you'd be, you know, happier while you're married to that person. If you practice, if both of you practice these four laws, or maybe it will give you more of an idea that that's not the right person. Maybe it'll open up your eyes that that's not the right person, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, so those are the four laws.
Speaker 2:Those are the four laws the law of purity, law of pursuit, law of partnership and law of prior.
Speaker 1:And if we're aware of these things and work at it as a couple, then we should be good to go there you go Exactly, I like it Exactly. Honestly, it's like again, we're not experts, but I feel like it's worked for us, and whether it's interesting because we've done things without really realizing these were the laws of marriage, like we never sought out to feel like these are these laws that we're pursuing, but when it's in your face with, like a label and a title.
Speaker 1:Then you're like oh okay, we've done this, we've worked through these. Yeah, we've done it, we've, we've, we've managed. I don't know how We've got it too. Oh no, probably because we got God and then us and then everybody else. There you go and it's worked, anyways, all right. So there's some questions that were given, and now I don't expect you to give details about how other people have answered. Of course not, because the men's group is very private, 100%, and it stays within. It's like Vegas whatever happens here stays here.
Speaker 2:Happens in the men's group stays in the men's group.
Speaker 1:But more of a generalization of how things were answered. So we can learn, we can learn. So one of the questions is why do you believe unresolved conflict is at the heart of most marriage problems and most divorces? Unresolved conflict.
Speaker 2:Yes and I was funny because Robert brought that up about unresolved conflict, Because you know, you and I even talked about this when we were walking today on the beach. Most people, unfortunately which is pretty cool because that doesn't happen in our family when I mean my family, my brothers and sisters we actually talk about problems. You and I talk about problems. We better at discussing problems and coming to solutions and agreement for both of us. But if you just let it go, you kind of sweep it under the rug, like you said earlier. You put it away, put it in a suitcase and never really address the problem. It's not like the problem goes away.
Speaker 2:A lot of people don't like conflict. They don't like to have a disagreement. A lot of people say, oh, we never have an argument, that means our marriage is perfect. That tells you if you really have a problem with your marriage. If you never have an argument and if you don't resolve it, it doesn't mean you have a bunch of arguments. It means your marriage is perfect and great. But you have to come to some resolution that you both feel good about, Because if you just let it go, go to bed and weeks go by, years go by, it's not like the problem went away, it just made it worse actually.
Speaker 1:Do you think we've had that?
Speaker 2:Oh, we've definitely had that Early on. Definitely we had that, and that's when you would blow up.
Speaker 1:Well, okay. The next question is can you agree to disagree on an issue? I don't know if you can. That goes in the hand with unresolved conflicts.
Speaker 2:Because it's unresolved. Yeah, you can't agree to disagree. That's what Robert said. Yeah, oh, he did. You can't agree to disagree.
Speaker 1:I got an A on the table.
Speaker 2:Because that is an unresolved conflict.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's still unresolved. Yeah. You haven't come to an agreement Because we've agreed to disagree, and it festers in me. I can't handle that. No, Me personally. I don't know about you, but for me it doesn't feel good to agree to disagree, especially if you think you're right. Yeah, yeah, and I'm right a lot, 98% of the time. Remember that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I said 2%, yeah, so yes, unresolved conflict is the number one reason that divorces happen. And the funny thing that Robert brought up and he said I just did this recently because he has divorce care, I think once or twice a year. He's been doing this for over 15, 20 years and he said that, out of the number of years married, 80% of the people were married over 15 years 10 to 15 years. It wasn't like, oh, I've been married for two years or three years. The majority of them, most of the people who had a divorce care, have been married for a long time, for a long time.
Speaker 2:So that means they've They've just dealt with it. They've had a lot of unresolved conflict, yeah, but that's the thing you've got to work.
Speaker 1:Or it's resolved and they're just on different pages, and it is what it is.
Speaker 2:Sure that's what a divorce is.
Speaker 1:This is where I stand and this is where you stand.
Speaker 2:We're not going to disagree. We're just going to separate. Yeah, we're going in this relationship. So, yeah, unresolved conflict is huge, because if you don't actually have that discussion and communicate as, what do they? Say the biggest problem in any relationship is communication. I like their up, so you have to communicate to get through that unresolved conflict. You can't just let it go. You let it go, then it just festers. And I think I got this from Carolyn.
Speaker 1:She's so wise. She is so wise. Everything you got was from Carolyn. Oh yeah, I got a lot of things from her. Hi, Carolyn.
Speaker 2:I remember saying a lot of times people and Carolyn used to do a little quasi marriage counseling and she did that with a lot of my friends, some of her friends, and she's really good at it. So I remember you know how people say they take all this baggage from one relationship to the other. Yeah, pretty soon. You keep adding things to your baggage, you're going to have suitcases and that's a lot of unresolved conflict and it's sometimes it's when you go in from relationship with this and you never resolve it. Sometimes it's not, it's personal unresolved conflict within yourself that you haven't resolved. Or you know, come to any type of resolution.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know how we get through all that. Maybe some counseling, or you just got to sit down over a nice dinner and just hash it out.
Speaker 2:A little bit of both.
Speaker 1:That's what we do.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And sometimes this is what I've found. One conversation may not know, resolve it and not on the problem it does.
Speaker 1:And then also sometimes they may not happen that year or the next year. And I have found that with certain things, with us, some things are like boom, boom, boom, we talk about it. We talk about it on the same page. Other times it's been a few years where it's kind of that situation goes into the next year, into the next year, into the next year. So it may not happen right away and those you agree to keep having that conversation yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, like I always said, marriage is a commitment to grow together.
Speaker 1:There's one thing that always will stand out for me with the two of us where we were having the same conversation about and we've talked about this in the men's panel where you were holding on to friendships of women, that you were dating sex with whatever.
Speaker 1:Whatever the case may be, you held on to them as friendships and so that was like a constant argument of ours. There was one day and I remember so vividly and I don't remember what it was, but it probably was around something like that and you were about to leave. You were in our bedroom and you were about to like storm out and something I can see. I still remember. I think something went off in your mind and I'm sitting there like so sad and crying and, oh my gosh, this is just not going to go anywhere. We've been talking about the same shit for years and you're just still doing the same shit and I'm feeling the same way. You stopped before you left. You turned around, you sat down facing me, you grabbed my hands. It was eye to eye, face to face, and you're like, basically like I want to listen to you. Right, that was a turning point. Yeah, I remember that. That was a turning point for me. I remember that Because I'm like if you had left, it would have just been the same old shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we would have been repeating the process.
Speaker 1:But you sat, you held my hands, you looked me in the eyes and I'll never forget that. And we talked. I felt heard, I felt heard. Yeah, I felt like, okay, he sees me. And that was the beginning of where we are today, and I think that was maybe, I don't know four years ago. Mm-hmm. Four or five years ago something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember that that was powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had to be just. I was just like I'm saying, hey, you're making a mistake. Right now You're being stupid. You know what that goes back to being selfish, being selfish, and so.
Speaker 1:It stopped you. It stopped you in your tracks. It did, and I'll never forget that moment.
Speaker 2:It was it, definitely was it.
Speaker 1:I was like if he, if you had walked away it was like you need to fight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because that was yeah, and so why? Are you getting emotional? No, because it took me back to that place.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know what happened for me to do that, Because it's something.
Speaker 1:You're ready to walk out that door?
Speaker 2:It's something when it's when it goes beyond you, yeah, and you have to. I don't know it was. It was because that was not Planned. Obviously. It wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna turn around and you know, that's, that's.
Speaker 1:You opened the doors and you were going out the doors. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was gone. Yeah, you were out of there and I don't know it was like it was like a barrier at that door that I and something in my head it was like it was. It was just like a switch and you know, for people that believe that's God, that's God that made me turn around and sit down and yeah, I know exactly.
Speaker 1:You remember that moment, I remember that moment like it was yesterday. Really, because I, I remember it too, and I don't think we've thought about it since today.
Speaker 3:Maybe that's why we haven't talked about it since today. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because that, that was true, that was pure, that was honest, that was transparency, that was yeah, that was just. I think in my immature self, I would have left.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And yeah, but at that moment something said to me you need to stop, you need to this has to end yeah.
Speaker 1:Because we're talking about the same shit over and over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is your soul mate. This is the person that you love with everything in your heart, and you need to make sure she knows that she's a priority. Yeah, and stop being selfish. Yeah and yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1:That was the moment, that's what that was and that was what. Oh no, we were married 15, 16 years, no more than that. Like six, like it was.
Speaker 2:It was 15, 16 years. Yeah, it's that category that. Robert said you know that's around that time people get divorced.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was around that time where I'm like all right, he finally sees me, he hears me, he gets it. Yes, and we can work from this. Yeah, if you had walked out and been like, this is your issue because you had told me that before, this is your insecurity.
Speaker 2:This is your issue. You can get over it. This is your problem. You need to get over it. Yeah, you need to grow up. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Be more mature.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's more like I need to work on myself. And yes, I do need to work on myself, but it hasn't taken any responsibility?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that whole process. Yeah, yeah, so, but it takes a lot.
Speaker 1:That's not something that's easy it does. It's a powerful thing when a person can do that, when people see us now and make comments, positive comments. Yeah, it's positive stuff, but they don't realize yeah.
Speaker 2:You have to go through. It is a commitment to grow together, because you can't grow by yourself, you can't improve on your own. I mean, you can, but your partner has to be willing to improve and go too, yeah. So yeah, you have to admit when you're wrong, you have to take responsibility for those times. And I'll tell you what. My most favorite, my most well, yeah, one of my best times in my life that I can say and I said this before in the podcast when you told me you're 100% trust me Well, that was groundbreaking for me.
Speaker 1:Because it was around. It was after that moment. So it's interesting because we've been married for 18 years. So when you say 15, that means the past three to four years is when we are really in. Not that we were not in sync before, but there was unresolved issues.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we had great moments. Yeah, great times. Like we said, we went on vacations and we owned it each other, yeah, but there was still underlying things.
Speaker 1:So that conversation, and then I was like all right, I have to let go of certain insecurities. And then that's when I was like I'm over all of this and I trust you 100%, because I never had said that, because I don't trust anybody 100%, I don't care who you are. I'm very skeptical of the world of people. I don't see people for who they are, upfront. That's just the way I'm built and I used to feel like it was a flaw or something's wrong with me. But I feel Instincts.
Speaker 2:Trust you, it is, it's an instinct thing.
Speaker 1:And so for me to say that, yeah, that I trust you also, it's a growth within me Because it's like, oh, you know what, if he, whatever, for whatever reason, screws up in any way, that's not on me. And so that's leading into this next question, and I think this is where a lot of my insecurities lie how do affairs get started? How do I protect myself from getting into an affair? That's where a lot, if I'm going to be honest, that's where a lot of things are, because I think I'm pretty freaking amazing. However, I know that I'm not that special that someone can't like you can't step out on me, that could be insecurity.
Speaker 2:Correct, correct.
Speaker 1:Why that's been an insecurity of mine, I don't know, but it's been very deep rooted and we got married when you and I was 25. So it wasn't like I had like this huge dating history.
Speaker 2:No, you did, you had a ton of baggage. So but the person that you with and had a father, his father Caitlin. Yeah, that's true, that's what he did.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know. There's no proof Deep down, deep down. There's no proof Deep down. I think there was something going on with others, but yeah, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, I think what's the question again.
Speaker 1:How do affairs get started and how do I protect myself from getting into an affair?
Speaker 2:Multiple reasons, but I think the biggest one is not making your marriage your priority, not putting yourself in situations that you have to make choices like that. So it's the when you get so comfortable, would you like. I don't have to date my wife anymore, I don't have to buy her flowers just because, or and we get off rhythm is when we haven't been dating each other, you know, when we're not like that year we didn't have our vacation.
Speaker 2:That was a bad year for us because we chose not to do it, and that wasn't fun. So when we can get back to us, that's always a great time and I think for these last four or five years we've had a lot of many vacations, you know one week vacations, like we're doing this weekend. You know we're here, kids are home and we have people, you know, watching them and.
Speaker 2:Kaylin's there, so that's very helpful for most of the weekend and but this is like I don't know. I love being here in timing, but I love being here in Tybee with you more than anything. So this is just my, this is my peace, this is my happy place. And so if you can't have that and you kind of get used to just the routine and life and his life and the world is just so, it's going to suck you up. Yes, You're out, and then that's when the devil gets in. The devil. That's the thing about it. The devil knows you better than you know yourself sometimes, so he knows what things he can do to entice you or make you feel like, yeah, you know, this didn't happen and you need to do this and you do that, make you feel better and someone says something to you, and so then, yeah, you get caught up in that craziness. You definitely do.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, setting up barriers for sure around you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Boundaries. I haven't, you know, saying hey, I'm not going to put myself in this situation, that I have to make a decision, or you know and I think, I think sometimes we think, oh, we're stronger than that. Oh, big time.
Speaker 1:So I'm not going to get sucked into that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not going to be me. Yeah, that was my whole thing in my first marriage was that, you know, first of all, I'm not going to get divorced. All my brothers and sisters were divorced and remarried, more than one some of them. So so it's like, oh, that's not going to happen. And the crazy thing about it is when I met my, my other brother, keith, he had been divorced. This is his second marriage and man, he has a wonderful wife and yeah, it's just crazy that we have all had that same pattern and yeah, so that was weird. And at the time I thought, oh, that's kind of weird because you know, our parents never got a divorce. But thank, keith was Keith, because my father wasn't faithful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Which is just shook my whole foundation. So yeah, that's that's. You know, obviously that's when you have that unresolved conflict, that's when it's easier for you, maybe, to step out. Yeah, it's easy for you to have an affair. It's interesting Because that person superficially, yes, fulfills something. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You're not doing life with them, right? It's like imaginary, it's like TV. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a fair tale, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's an escape.
Speaker 2:It's definitely an escape. So for me, I'd rather escape with you to somewhere that's like anywhere really doesn't matter where we go. Even that one time year that we just did a staycation, the kids went away? Yes, they did go away.
Speaker 1:And thank you, thank you, family, for always helping out on both sides.
Speaker 2:Yes. The mom and your siblings have been a godsend. Yeah, Carolyn, Nelly. And your mother, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:I think John Kevin got shout out to him because I think that year he drove halfway to pick up the kids.
Speaker 2:Yes, he did, yes, he did.
Speaker 1:I mean he didn't take care of them, but he drove, he drove, he drove.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love my brother. Yeah, they're awesome, yeah, so you know, it's just even then like we went on dates that week and went out to different places in Atlanta, but we had to have that one on one time.
Speaker 1:Okay. So this question I have no idea. So maybe you guys talked about this. It says something about spiritual blindness. How does spiritual blindness which I've never heard of this term in my life play a part in marriage problems and divorce? What is spiritual blindness, and can a Christian become spiritually blind 100%? So what was that about Spiritual warfare? Come back next week, where we continue the conversation about marriage and answer some marriage questions. We define what the spiritual blindness is all about, and Philip confesses something that he has been very private about concerning his first marriage. So come back next week. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of your week and a phenomenal weekend. See ya. Thank you so much for listening to Virago 24-7. If you haven't done so already, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and please give us five star ratings. Also, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Virago 24 underscore seven, and on Facebook, at Virago 24 slash seven, and just connect with us and share your story. We'd love to hear from you.
